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#250034 - 03/03/09 04:05 PM I made a mistake...please help.
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
Today I went into a local hi-fi shop (yes, it's still 1970 in there) just to see what they had, as I had not been in that store for over 10 years. Apparently, not many others had either as most of the stuff was used - used but high-end. So I walked around, heard a few Magnapen's and some B&W Signature Series monitors, and the Paradigm Signature 8s and some giant (10 ft tall) speakers I can't recall the name of. So far, so good. They each sound good, but I’m not calling the banker for a loan. No damage, other than thinking of getting an NAD AVR to replace my Denon, because "the NAD is much better and does not have the shrill grainy sound of Denons" as the sales Dick said. Thanks a$$h@!*.

So I'm fine. Then I see a couple of little monitors in the back room. I like the cabinets, a curved job with great visual presence in a high gloss finished natural maple, so I check it out. Then Sir DipS&!%$ turns them on...so I sit in the crappy room with speakers everywhere to hear Dire Straits "You and Your Friends" for the 1,000th time, because a I had 10 minutes to kill. Besides, monitors suck, I'm safe.

Then the damn thing bit me...the bug. These little bastards made an image (in a crappy room) that blew my mind. Knopfler's voice was so clear and distinct from the guitars that I kept looking for a third speaker. I don't want new speakers, I want a new AVR and a projector not these damn half-pint monitors - I don't like monitors. But they sound soooooo gooooooood it hurts. And they are some locally made speaker with a name I can’t even find on the internet or recall with clarity (I saw it upside down and backwards).

I keep telling myself it was the $30,000 rack of transports, DACs, Cables and tube amps that made it so great, not the potentially affordable speakers. I'm screwed...I want new speakers now.

Someone help me, I'm being sucked down. DipS^!+ said they are "very revealing, fast, accurate, and will show flaws in recordings". Crap, I have heard that line before, but where???? Just don't tell me the Axioms sound like that - I don't want new speakers!
But I must have the precious...

_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#250037 - 03/03/09 04:10 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: Zimm]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10830
Loc: Central NH
Zimm, I'm sorry that I'm drawing a blank, but do you already have Axioms?
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#250038 - 03/03/09 04:11 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: MarkSJohnson]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
QS8's only. I am was fine with PSB 5T towers.
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#250039 - 03/03/09 04:11 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: Zimm]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8268
Loc: Tacoma
Axioms sound just like that. Ditch the PSB's and be assimilated.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#250040 - 03/03/09 04:13 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: tomtuttle]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10830
Loc: Central NH
What the drunk squirrel said.

I've sat down in my crappy room with stereo only and had to get up to make sure the center wasn't on. Is that what you want? \:\)
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#250041 - 03/03/09 04:13 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: Zimm]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

Look for an Axiom audition, they might just surprise ya \:\)
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#250043 - 03/03/09 04:20 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: MarkSJohnson]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
My question is, why aren't his PSBs doing this? My 15 year old, $350, Sony two-way towers make me check to see if I'm in ProLogic making the center channel play or it if is just the phantom imaging.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#250045 - 03/03/09 04:27 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: ClubNeon]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
 Originally Posted By: ClubNeon
My question is, why aren't his PSBs doing this? My 15 year old, $350, Sony two-way towers make me check to see if I'm in ProLogic making the center channel play or it if is just the phantom imaging.


No, not like that. My PSBs have a great image in general terms, and I have listened to many speakers in many price ranges. I often can't recall if my center is one, and the band is wide, and instruments detailed and distinct. I am familiar with that. I don't know how to explain, but this was just a very different experience. Reminded me of my experience with Wilson Watt Puppies (I think?) and a truck load of Krell amps. Just a level of immersion that is not the norm. It had to be the DACs and Tube Amps and...stuff, right?
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#250046 - 03/03/09 04:28 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: Wid]
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17739
Loc: NoVA
The Dire Straits albums could sound good on tin cans with strings on them. Try it on yours before you go nuts.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#250048 - 03/03/09 04:38 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: Ken.C]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
I wish that was it. I have listed to that song many many times on many systems. If it was unfamiliar stuff I would agree, and just run to get the CD. But I knew this material well - and it was on CD, not DVD-A or SACD. Had to be the DAC 'n stuff (technical term).
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#250049 - 03/03/09 04:41 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: Zimm]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
I almost laughed when Sir Dip$^!+ tried to explain "these are very revealing, really going to show flaws in the recording." I'm thinking, wow, so if Axiom had a show room this is the sales pitch. He could have just said Bright!
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#250051 - 03/03/09 05:00 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: Zimm]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5279
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
I've read your post about 10 times and I still can't figure out what speaker model you are talking about. They're not Bose are they ?

Maybe the speakers really are that good - or maybe it's the listening room - or maybe they pipe french-fry-smell into the room to distort your perception, it's hard to say right now ;\)

Were the speakers very expensive ?


Edited by bridgman (03/03/09 05:04 PM)

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#250054 - 03/03/09 05:16 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: bridgman]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
I can't figure out the name. (And I did not want to post my guess of the name as I don't want Axiom to take it the wrong way.) But the sales guy - I mean Sir DipS - said they were locally made and not yet available to the market yet. No they were not Bose. I thought the 5.25 driver looked like a ScanSpeak, but I can't be sure. They cost $1,800 a pair. So not technically "very" expensive, although more than I would think to spend on a bookshelf/monitor. Just insane imaging.

I was hungry, I wonder if the fry smell did it? Speaking of; the WWII Museum here in New Orleans is about to open a huge 4D theater (their term) where they use the smells of gunpowder and oil, they blow hot and cold aid, drop snow, and shake you as you watch a custom made movie. The french fry smell should come when the movie ends.
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#250057 - 03/03/09 05:20 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: Zimm]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16258
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Do yourself a favor and listen to some M22s or M3s before you spend $1800 on monitors. You won't regret it.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#250061 - 03/03/09 05:26 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: bridgman]
Worfzara Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 709
Loc: London area, Ont, Canada
I have had occasions on some material that I have actually unplugged and removed my center channel to ensure it wasn't on. Imaging on the M80's is that good. I have also unplugged my sub for the same reason on occasion.

Zimm, PSB is a good Canadian speaker company. There stuff is pretty good, at least from what I have read and heard in stores. I am supprised they are letting you down like this. Have you tried moving them around a bit, or moving your listening position to find a better sweet spot?

paul
_________________________
paul

Axiom M80, VP180, Qs8, EP500
Panasonic PT-AU900
AudioTrak AT-6100
Denon AVR-990

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#250065 - 03/03/09 05:39 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: Worfzara]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
 Originally Posted By: Worfzara
I have had occasions on some material that I have actually unplugged and removed my center channel to ensure it wasn't on. Imaging on the M80's is that good. I have also unplugged my sub for the same reason on occasion.

How about your surrounds? Listening to Imogen Heap's "Speak for Yourself" and Bjork's "Volta" (among others) I definitely get a surround effect from just my mains.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#250066 - 03/03/09 05:40 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: Worfzara]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
 Originally Posted By: Worfzara

Zimm, PSB is a good Canadian speaker company. There stuff is pretty good, at least from what I have read and heard in stores. I am surprised they are letting you down like this.

I have to be fair to PSB, I don't think they are letting me down, that's why this experience surprised me. As I said, also listened to Magnapans, Paradigm Signatures, etc., within 10 min of these little demons, and only these little monitors stood out from the pack (in terms of what I have come to expect). So I don't blame PSB, I truly enjoy my PSBs and the $8000 Para Sig 8's did not have me longing for them. Sure my PSBs could be better, they are not the top-PSB, but I have not had an itch to replace them in almost a decade.

This just sounded so much better I was am shocked. Maybe I will dome some M3 or M22 and see if I have been missing something all this time.
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#250067 - 03/03/09 05:43 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: ClubNeon]
Worfzara Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 709
Loc: London area, Ont, Canada
Yes, also get a 3d effect on some well recorded material. Never thought of unplugging the QS8's, but now that you mention it......

paul
_________________________
paul

Axiom M80, VP180, Qs8, EP500
Panasonic PT-AU900
AudioTrak AT-6100
Denon AVR-990

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#250068 - 03/03/09 05:49 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: ClubNeon]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
 Originally Posted By: ClubNeon

How about your surrounds? Listening to Imogen Heap's "Speak for Yourself" and Bjork's "Volta" (among others) I definitely get a surround effect from just my mains.


I get that a good bit mainly b/c my room is small. At loud levels the 2ch mode sounds like surround sound.

Speaking of great imaging, anyone here listen to Buena Vista Social Club? Buena I'm am not a fan of Cuban music, but this stuff is fantastically clear and quiet so you hear every touch of the keys or strum of a string. And the image is very solid and defined. I should bring that to the Hi-Fi shop and see if it makes me cry.
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#250097 - 03/03/09 09:54 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: Zimm]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
After coming home and playing You and Your Friends on the home system I can more accurately say it is not that the image of my PSBs is not there, it is just that image presented is not as razor sharp as the image i enjoyed today. Same general placement, but lacking the absolute image clarity that hooked me.
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#250098 - 03/03/09 10:00 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: Zimm]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11136
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
You should see if they'll bring them by to see if the experience can be recreated in your home.
_________________________
SuperGrand UltraDeluxe (Plus Extra More)

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#250103 - 03/03/09 10:14 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: CV]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
I was thinking about that. The room did not look impressive, but maybe it was sonically. I think they would probably let me take them home, as they were pushing for me to take an NAD AVR home. I should do that and report back. Kinda scared I won't let them go...and i really don't want to buy them. It's like asking the crack dealer to come watch the game at your house when you are trying to kick the rock...I guess it is like that, I mean.
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#250104 - 03/03/09 10:18 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: Zimm]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11136
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Nice guess!
_________________________
SuperGrand UltraDeluxe (Plus Extra More)

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#250108 - 03/03/09 10:29 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: Zimm]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6599
Loc: It's all about the location.
Charles, it would be interesting to compare this bookshelf to one of PSBs bookshelfs in the same $$ range, maybe the Synchrony series or to one of Totems bookshelfs as well as the Axioms, just to see where these "mystery" speakers fit in compared with similarly priced bookshelfs. \:\)
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#250109 - 03/03/09 10:31 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: CV]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5279
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Do you remember what the wall behind you was like in the demo room, and how that compares to what you have at home ? I found that it took a *lot* of absorbent material on the back wall of my last room (like a pile of cushions covering most of the wall, or pillows held behind my ears) to get decent imaging.

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#250112 - 03/03/09 10:48 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: bridgman]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
Well, one big difference was that the monitors were about 4 or 5 feet from the front wall. My set up is much closer. So I moved my towers out to 2 ft, and the image did improve greatly, but mid-bass drops quick. So that was part of it. The wall at the shop had a big curtain over the whole thing, but I expect as a dedicated room, they had it well deadened. My room has Sheetrock only behind the speakers right now, so your comment is well received. I need to add some material back there and see if it helps even more.
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#250147 - 03/04/09 08:07 AM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: Zimm]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10830
Loc: Central NH
500 posts and you haven't bought Axiom fronts yet?
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#250173 - 03/04/09 01:00 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: Zimm]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
Zimm, your description is hilarious.

I've felt exactly the same way on numerous occasions. \:D
_________________________
M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

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#250192 - 03/04/09 02:18 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: MarkSJohnson]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
500 posts and you haven't bought Axiom fronts yet?


Come on, I bought the surrounds. I don't need new fronts (I think? \:o ). I like my fronts and want new stuff I don't have, like a 120" 1080p image!

 Quote:
Zimm, your description is hilarious.


Glad my pain could serve a good purpose. Last night my wife could see something was up. I was moving speakers and running A-B repeat cycles of "You and Your Friends". Finally, she asked. So I tell her about the speakers. She looks at me like the a "recovered" crack addict with a fresh pipe [or rock or whatever] in hand. So sad.
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#250199 - 03/04/09 02:37 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: MarkSJohnson]
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
500 posts and you haven't bought Axiom fronts yet?


He bought Axioms' finest speaker, IMHO.

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#250203 - 03/04/09 02:40 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: bugbitten]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
No; he's thinking about buying the M80s
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#250232 - 03/04/09 04:34 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: Wid]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7031
Loc: Canada
\:D
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#250325 - 03/05/09 10:23 AM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: fredk]
Hogie Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 02/11/09
Posts: 12
Loc: On the couch
Hey man, you should ask Sir Dips#%& to let you take those speakers home for a free in-home demo. If he really believes in them, especially in these hard times, he'll let you do it. Take 'em home and hook 'em up to your set-up. That's the only way to really tell if the magic is in the speakers, and not some unseen enhancement. If he says no, he truly is a dips#%&.
Eat some french fries first.

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#250338 - 03/05/09 11:30 AM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: Hogie]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6599
Loc: It's all about the location.
Or, if the dealer doesn't bite on that, ask him if you can bring your PSBs to the store and try them on the same equipment. If he doesn't go for that either, step on his foot real hard, make a fist and go "Moe Howard" on him.
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#250345 - 03/05/09 11:46 AM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: Adrian]
Hogie Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 02/11/09
Posts: 12
Loc: On the couch
Look to see if he has french fry grease on his fingers.

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#250357 - 03/05/09 01:10 PM Re: I made a mistake...please help. [Re: bugbitten]
Hutzal Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 2102
Loc: Hollywood. (Canadian @ <3)
I can tell you that I am planning on putting M22s in my studio for mixing and editing as one of the pairs of monitors. I would love to pair them to a couple of EP400s in a monitor switch, I think the M22s would mix very well.

don't spend $1800 on some monitors!!
_________________________
Producer | Composer
www.robbhutzal.com

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