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#253305 - 03/23/09 05:26 PM Re: A temporary conclusion. [Re: PeterChenoweth]
davekro Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/12/09
Posts: 562
Loc: Discovery Bay, CA
 Originally Posted By: PeterChenoweth

I thought about coming home with a 3808, but ultimately didn't. I was somewhat lukewarm to the idea of re-moving/connecting all of my gear *again* to start with. ... so just sort of gave up on the endeavor for this week.


Peter,
I'm glad to hear that there is still a ray of hope for us fence hangin' folks not 'quite' ready to place the order due to 'waffle-itis', that you may find it in your heart take a 3808 into foster care for a week or so. ;\)
_________________________
Dave

"In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice they're not."

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#254784 - 03/31/09 09:37 PM Re: TX-SR876, in the house (and back in the box) [Re: PeterChenoweth]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4842
Loc: western canada
 Originally Posted By: PeterChenoweth
Or perhaps this was some sort of manifestation of problems driving M80's. I left the 876 in 6-ohm mode, per suggestions on AVS, so maybe something was going on there.

A very likely issue indeed.
Onkyos are not known for their robust amplifier sections. Although i have run a light 4 ohm speaker on mine in the past, distortion was quickly evident depending on SPL and this occurred at far lower SPL than with a 8 ohm speaker.
Screeching as you suggest, at the more aggressive passages, is exactly how i would have described my experience in the past in a similar situation.

It is too bad you did not have an external amp for comparison with both AVRs to remove that possibility of being a problem.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#254785 - 03/31/09 09:40 PM Re: A temporary conclusion. [Re: PeterChenoweth]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4842
Loc: western canada
 Originally Posted By: PeterChenoweth
While it's not the identical amp section, I know that Integra is Onkyo's high-end brand, and so they share some of the same design philosophy.

IMO, skip the Integra.
If you were not keen on the Onkyo, the Integra isn't going to be any better.

The Rotel path is certainly a good one, or there's still that option to just find a good external amp section and choose the AVR with the best features of preference.
Some good inexpensive amps include Anthems MCA series. Used you can get a MCA20 or 30 for about $500-700 Cdn.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#254855 - 04/01/09 08:08 AM Re: A temporary conclusion. [Re: chesseroo]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6884
Loc: PEI, Canada
But the Anthems have no glowing lights????

I say that only half jokingly as I readily admit that they serve no purpose on a stand alone amp but I also admit I'm a sucker for electronics that have a lighted display or at least an eerie glow.
_________________________
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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#254867 - 04/01/09 10:03 AM Re: TX-SR876, in the house (and back in the box) [Re: chesseroo]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
Thanks chesseroo for the comments. Interesting that you've had similar experiences with Onkyo.

 Originally Posted By: chesseroo

It is too bad you did not have an external amp for comparison with both AVRs to remove that possibility of being a problem.


I actually do. I've got my LPA-1 that I use with my VSX-43TX, as the 43TX has similar issues with my M80's at high volume levels.

I didn't bother trying the LPA with the 876 because I don't want to continue on with an AVR acting as a prepro, as I have now. I either want a stand-alone AVR that is capable of effectively powering my system on its own or I want to continue down the path to true separates.

And right now, with Emotiva's UMC-1 finally actually having a projected release date of June '09, I'm holding out for that. If that doesn't impress me, I'll re-evaluate the status of Outlaw's 997 compared to whatever Denon & Pioneer are offering at that time.
_________________________
M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

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#254868 - 04/01/09 10:40 AM Re: TX-SR876, in the house (and back in the box) [Re: PeterChenoweth]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
It's a tough market for pre-pros right now. Even the big dogs of audiophilia seem to be waiting on the sidelines, lagging behind with HDMI 1.1, old codecs, etc. Yesterday I looked around at my list of "if I had a billion" toys, and saw that B&K, Proceed Halo, NAD Master Series, Lexicon, and Mark Levinson all lack pre-pro that I would buy right now, even if $$ were no object. Meanwhile, Denon wants $7,000 for its Pre-pro, and Inegra adds no features over the 9.9 AVR, but keeps the price the same for the identical pre-pro sans amps. It seems like the only place to get all the basic 2008 features is a mid-level AVR. Very strange; to me anyway. Emotiva and Outlaw/Sherwood should rush their products to the market.
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#254869 - 04/01/09 10:51 AM Re: TX-SR876, in the house (and back in the box) [Re: Zimm]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
Not to defend Integra/Onkyo, but the DHC and DTR are priced differently.

MSRP on the DHC 9.9 (the prepro) is $2,000. MSRP on the DTR 9.9 (the receiver) is $2,600.

When talking to my local Integra dealer about the DHC, he said they could do much better than $2k. I don't know if that meant $1,950 or $1,200. I didn't press him on it at the time. Either way, for $700, the UMC-1 looks pretty compelling.

Totally agree though- Sherwood/Outlaw & Emotiva can't bring their new products to market soon enough!

The latest info I've read says that Sherwood's new AVR (with Trinnov) should be ready by "late April". That's according to what I've read over on the Outlaw Forum. Outlaw's 997 supposedly should follow 60-90 days later, pending problems with the Sherwood. With a little bit of luck, the 997's and UMC ought to be hitting consumer doorsteps by mid-summer. One can hope. ;\)

I'm holding on to what I have until then, as both products hold too much promise to ignore.
_________________________
M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

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#254873 - 04/01/09 11:05 AM Re: TX-SR876, in the house (and back in the box) [Re: PeterChenoweth]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
That's very interesting about the Integra. My local Integra shop sucks in every since of the word. They were willing to drop the price of the 9.9 AVR to about $2000 without a fight, but said the prepro was not so easily obtained or discounted. If that is not the case, then the Integra would be worth some consideration as it seems like its amps are the point of concern.
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#254876 - 04/01/09 11:17 AM DHC 9.9 [Re: Zimm]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
When we were talking about the DHC, the owner of the store and a salesman were present. When the owner said they'd be able to do a deal on a DHC, he added that I'd have to act quickly because they were still in the "dealer buy-in" period on the DHC 9.9 - they would be able to get one for less than their usual price and pass along that savings to me. He was cool about it, even saying he'd gladly let me borrow a DTR for the weekend to see if I liked it. I darn near took him up on the offer. But I decided to pass, as I still had (have) a slightly bitter taste regarding Onkyo.

But still, spending any more than $1k on a prepro right now will leave me thinking that I "coulda/shoulda" tried the UMC for $700.


Edited by PeterChenoweth (04/01/09 11:20 AM)
_________________________
M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

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#254881 - 04/01/09 11:44 AM Re: DHC 9.9 [Re: PeterChenoweth]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
Very true, but I'm on a mean strak today so I'll just lob this in: With the Emotiva product, you have a company making (I think) its first effort into this strata, using several very new technologies. That is why I think so many big boys are waiting for others to iron out the kinks. So for $300(or so) in savings, you have to wait and get a much riskier product.

You know Onkyo can make a prepro that competently decodes and passes all the signals around, and you have an amp. For $1,000, I'd take the Integra over the Emotiva even if they were dead equal. Given what I have heard about Emotiva, I have some reservations that their product will equal the Integra right out the gate.
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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