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#255499 - 04/04/09 03:01 PM Re: I Graphed...Now What? [Re: SirQuack]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
Thanks all, I'm going to work on those items first. My speakers are about 22 inches from the side walls, and the same from the front wall. Had not thought about that being a problem. Due to a doorway, I don't have unlimited mobility, but I have some room to adjust some. I'll do that first. I also have some DIY sound absorbers so I'll run it again with those in place at the 1st reflection and see what happens.

Really sad to hear I mis-read 3000hz for 300. Things really look erratic over 250. Ignorance was bliss!
Thanks for the help, one and all.
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#255504 - 04/04/09 03:23 PM Re: I Graphed...Now What? [Re: Zimm]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7047
Loc: Canada
There is a lot of comb filtering going on at higher frequencies. It is recommended to measure using 1/3 octave smoothing to see what is going on at high frequencies.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#255561 - 04/04/09 11:26 PM Re: I Graphed...Now What? [Re: Zimm]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Charles, keep in mind that the distances in question(hopefully to be kept as unequal as possible)are measured from the center of the mid-woofer cones, not the speaker enclosure.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#255629 - 04/05/09 04:49 PM Re: I Graphed...Now What? [Re: JohnK]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
Good point thanks. the ratio would be the same, but the measurements would move as i did not use that as the point of measurement. I moved the fronts closer to front wall and reduced the toe angle. Image held pretty well. Still need to re-run graphs.

And I'll add the 1/3 octave change recommended. As is, the chart above 200 looks like my room is about to erupt.
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#255652 - 04/05/09 07:24 PM Re: I Graphed...Now What? [Re: Zimm]
StuntGibbon Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 374
That looks like some good dip, I'll bring the chips.

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#255653 - 04/05/09 07:31 PM Re: I Graphed...Now What? [Re: StuntGibbon]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11208
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
 Originally Posted By: StuntGibbon
That looks like some good dip, I'll bring the chips.


Chips for EQ processing, I presume?

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#255656 - 04/05/09 07:45 PM Re: I Graphed...Now What? [Re: CV]
StuntGibbon Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 374
Just for snacking while we watch him fix it? \:\)

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#255657 - 04/05/09 07:46 PM Re: I Graphed...Now What? [Re: StuntGibbon]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
\:\) ah yes, the dip jokes begin. My room deserves that.
But, as you can see, the folks around here do know a thing or two. While the graphing is frustrating in that every tiny move causes a hole somewhere, while fixing another, it is nice to get big picture changes in a visual format. As a result of JohnK, FredK, and SirQuack (among others) I decided to give the front speakers a move. First, closer together, so as to be further from the side walls (about 32" from mid-driver), while still about 40" from the front, with very little toe-in. Good graph, but the image was weak and the kick drums and bass guitars lost their feel. So I toed in about 5 degrees more. BANG. That was it, the sound-stage got wider than the room, which I did not have before, yet the vocals on "You and your friends" is dead center and clear, and every pluck and kick has a visceral feel. I would not have done this without the recommendations here, as I really felt there was just one sweet spot in my small room. Wow, i have much to learn.
I'm still surprised that decreasing the distance between the speakers and using a wider toe angle actually enlarged the sound-stage, but kept the detail. Man, there are some complex mathematics going on here. Anyway, here is the new graph, although I am not skilled enough to point to the benefits, the auditory changes are unmistakable.

Thank you gentlemen. I owe you a drink on your next trip to N.O. I still owe Tom a beer, but that squirrel seems to be stocked up.
[img][/img]
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#255663 - 04/05/09 08:17 PM Re: I Graphed...Now What? [Re: Zimm]
StuntGibbon Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 374
I'm still not sure that graph will keep pace with inflation.

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#255667 - 04/05/09 08:31 PM Re: I Graphed...Now What? [Re: StuntGibbon]
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
Zimm I've always been a huge advocate of the importance speaker placement within a room, took me forever to get mine placed where I'm totally happy with the SQ.
_________________________
Rick
Our Room

smile

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