Misti, amplifiers simply don't work that way; they have no capability of performing a miracle by making speakers "come alive sooner" at lower volume level. Volume is volume.

What I meant is that at the same SPL as before, the speakers have better bass, mids and there is more detail everywhere. Before I had to listen at higher SPL for the speakers to have this "sound". Maybe I have crappy receiver, good thing it has pre-outs.

Zimm might I send you to Outlaw Audio and try out the M2200

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/2200.html

I like mine, and they're dead quiet... and on sale!

The Behringer Europower amps seem worth a look. Low distortion, good price. They have fairly noisy fans, but there are sites for DIY's to quiet them down.

Thanks, i had not found those. For $270 per ch that is pretty good. Still not the power level of this Crown (450/ch at 4 ohms) but clearly a bargain with low THD. it is now on the radar!

I accept that the impact is driven by a placebo effect, but I do "find" more bass even at low levels (this time about 70db). They call it weight I think. The only non-placebo explanation I can offer is possibly power reserves allowing bass (without a sub) that a smaller power supply can't reach. Sames as the greater dynamic range I explained above. But that is far from scientific, and I'm too lazy to do true A/B testing for the group.

That is the most surprising aspect of the external amp issue for me. There literally was more music than I was getting - 2 to 3 db of sound peaks. I didn't expect that and i think it adds something to the experience, when you exceed my old amps comfort zone of 80 to 100 watts.

And just to show I am not completely cured, I could swear the image moved higher in the room. No idea why, but Knopfler's voice is about 18" higher on "You and Your Friends" than I recall on the Denon. Damn powerful placebo!

And that is where I think so much of the debate on the amp issues lies. To me, 85db is nice. No, it is not soft, but it is far from the live instrument volume you are trying to reproduce. If 85db is near your top end, then a 5000 watt amp would make no difference. But trying to recreate a live emotion (not live rock concert! ), where 100db is often found, and 105 is common, then these more powerful amps just keep the signal clean so you don't get the distortion of my Denon clipping the signal.

In short, I agree with you, and your wrong.

I must be taking the same placebo.

I'm with Zimm on this one.

After my A1400 experience I can't buy a seperate amp soon enough.

Damn, you guys make me want to order a couple of those Outlaws. I've been saving their Sale e-mail as a reminder.