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#25914 - 11/18/03 04:32 PM M22Ti's mounted sidway
steinb Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/18/03
Posts: 3
I am in the market for some new speakers. Unfortunately, the space in my entertainment cabinet is only 12inches(h) by 20inches(w). This would be perfect for the M22Ti mounted on its side with some kind of rubber "buttons" stuck on the side of the speaker cabinet. I emailed axiom and was told it wasnt recommended because it would negatively affect the dispersion parameters. I'm not sure what that means but has anyone ever mounted their bookshelf speakers on their sides? I'm very impressed with what I've read on the speaker and really want to make them work. Thanks for any advice. Eric
I also plan to buy the VP150 center channel.

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#25915 - 11/18/03 05:49 PM Re: M22Ti's mounted sidway
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16289
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
It's the consensus on this board that mounting any vertically-designed Axiom speaker sideways is not a good idea.

The tweeters are designed for good horizontal dispersion. If you place them on their sides, they'll disperse vertically instead. This will most likely adversely affect their most cherished qualities: detailed imaging and soundstage depth.

Another reason not to put them in your entertainment center is that the M22ti speakers are rear-ported, and thus need clear airspace behind them. Putting them in an enclosed space like the one you describe will adverseley affect their sound.

Hope this helps your decision.
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#25916 - 11/18/03 05:56 PM Re: M22Ti's mounted sidway
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17789
Loc: NoVA
Just to play devil's advocate... how can a round speaker be designed for horizontal or vertial dispersion? It's... round.
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#25917 - 11/18/03 06:09 PM Re: M22Ti's mounted sidway
curtis Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 1501
Loc: Manhattan Beach, CA
Although the drivers themselves are round....they are aligned vertically.....so putting a speaker on its side changes it's orientation and dispurtion characteristics.

Also some tweeters are designed with defraction lenses to alter dispurtion characteristics.....turning the lense would change it characteristics.

Also...the shape of the enclosure can also play a big part on its imaging characteristics as well.


Edited by curtis (11/18/03 06:10 PM)

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#25918 - 11/18/03 06:15 PM Re: M22Ti's mounted sidway
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17789
Loc: NoVA
OK, if the cabinet matters why do centers work? (mind you, I'm just asking the questions, not saying you're wrong)
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#25919 - 11/18/03 06:27 PM Re: M22Ti's mounted sidway
curtis Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 1501
Loc: Manhattan Beach, CA
Not a whole lot of imaging can be created from one center channel.

Center channels are also hindered to some extent when placed on top or under a TV.....the face of a TV creates a baffle.

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#25920 - 11/18/03 07:53 PM Re: M22Ti's mounted sidway
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16289
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
I found a good explanation of horizontal vs. vertical placement here:

http://www.futuremusic.co.uk/fm_mmusic.asp?ID=6809&PageNo=6
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#25921 - 11/18/03 08:36 PM Re: M22Ti's mounted sidway
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17789
Loc: NoVA
OK. I'll buy that. Now I understand johnk's argument for vertical centers better, too. I still wonder a bit why the TMMMT arrangement of the VP150 works so well. Hmm... I suppose when there's more drivers, there's more dispersal. Therefore, could one use VP150s as fronts as well as the center?
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I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#25922 - 11/18/03 10:51 PM Re: M22Ti's mounted sidway
mwc Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/21/02
Posts: 958
Loc: Texas(DFW)..that country to th...
In reply to:

Therefore, could one use VP150s as fronts as well as the center?




Good question Ken! You've got me curious.
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#25923 - 11/18/03 10:57 PM Re: M22Ti's mounted sidway
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17789
Loc: NoVA
Pricy, but interesting...
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#25924 - 11/18/03 11:42 PM Re: M22Ti's mounted sidway
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10405
Eric, I agree with the other replies which indicated that a horizontal M22 isn't the best idea. If you absolutely have to use that space in the entertainment center, M2s properly positioned vertically would fit(and incidentally, as I've often commented before, a third vertical M2 would make a fine matching center speaker).

The article Peter linked was interesting. In reviewing Energy Veritas speakers Tom Norton made some comments on horizontal MTMs beginning on the bottom of page 2. of the review. The comments and measurements page illustrate the problem with the horizontal orientation. Note the suggestions that if the center could have been turned vertically the off-axis response would have been smoother and that the smaller 2.2 vertical would be a better center.
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#25925 - 11/19/03 12:23 AM Re: M22Ti's mounted sidway
steinb Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/18/03
Posts: 3
Thanks all for the replies. I have considered the M2s but really wanted something a little more substantial. (they might be the only way) Unfortunately, inside the cabinet is my only option. I have emailed the company about using 2 VP100s and a center VP 150 so I'm interested to hear their response.

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#25926 - 11/19/03 01:13 AM Re: M22Ti's mounted sidway
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17789
Loc: NoVA
The problem is that the VP100s would have the same problem as a pair of M22s, as I read it. (well, they might be a little better...)
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#25927 - 11/19/03 04:12 PM Re: M22Ti's mounted sidway
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16289
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
would the L/R VP150s be mounted vertically?
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#25928 - 11/19/03 04:37 PM Re: M22Ti's mounted sidway
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17789
Loc: NoVA
No; there's no point in that. Might as well get M22s if you're doing that. I was just saying because of the better dispersion of the VP150s, they might work as LR horizontal speakers.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#25929 - 11/19/03 04:45 PM Re: M22Ti's mounted sidway
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16289
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
In the right situation, .e.g. restricted shelf space, that might be a great solution.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#25930 - 11/19/03 04:45 PM Re: M22Ti's mounted sidway
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17789
Loc: NoVA
Anyone with 3 VP150s want to try it? :-D
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I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#25931 - 11/20/03 02:18 AM Re: M22Ti's mounted sidway
steinb Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/18/03
Posts: 3
Company reps said they wouldnt advise it. My only other option is the M2s. I'm a little concerned they might be too "whimpy" for my room. Ugh! What to do.

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#25932 - 11/20/03 02:44 AM Re: M22Ti's mounted sidway
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17789
Loc: NoVA
Try one of the three choices, and send it back if you don't like it! That's what the 30 days is for...
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I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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