Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Changes to EP500?

I just got my new EP500 today really nice sub. I noticed the trim knob is gone when I downloaded the manual it had a trim adjustment on the back of the EP500 is this a different design? This one does not just curious.

Its strange the directions have a picture of the back of my new sub with out the trim control yet it still says to set the trim to flat as though it still had it. And it does not explain the new switch (subsonic filter) which was not on the downloaded manual or mine. The number on the picture of the new switch in the instructions is the trim control not the subsonic filter.

so I guess my question is what is the subsonic filter switch? It does not say anything about it in the instructions the instructions called it the trim and to set it at flat.

The subsonic filter is a high-pass filter. It cuts the lowest parts of the audio spectrum. I don't know what frequency Axiom picked for theirs though (15 Hz?).

Quite a few recordings have noise in the very low bass range. It isn't meant to be there, but it wasn't filtered out of the master because no one heard it on the studio monitors. Now that subs are reaching the infrasonic (proper term, as subsonic means slower than the speed of sound, while infrasonic means below the hearing threshold) range people are starting to notice this low-end noise.

EDIT: It's also useful for people who still use mechanical pickup mechanisms for playback which are liable to generate infrasonic rumble.

The one in the EP800 is at 20hz, so it is likely that their other DSP subs that go around 16-17hz also have it now.

I called them it was a design change they took out the trim controls on all of them now and replaced it with a subsonic filter which I am going to leave off unless I hear a hum. He said to just leave off for movies.

Well I am getting that rumble I then turned the filter on and still get it. AH crap new problems. Any suggestions.

Not sure what your saying by "rumble"? Have you calibrated the sub to the other speakers?

Well maybe its not actually a rumble from that low end noise but its something on didnt have on the EP175. Its a low end noise none the less but its not on movies. Its when I play music and only during some parts of the song like its going to low.And I dont hear it during live recordings thats why I thinks it that subsonic noise that is on alot of recordings but that filter is suppose to stop that and mine is not(if thats the problem) When you say calibrate do you mean the channel level I tried but I am not that good yet I am bringing in a pro once I get my new center either Monday or Tuesday so I will wait til he comes before I say I have a problem unless someone has something easy to try should the volume always be up all the way on a sub? And my crossover is set at 80 on the sub and the A/v as per the instructions for the new design (No trim control now)

Through that break-less paragraph, you seem to be asking if the volume should always be all the way up on a sub.

If that is the question, then the answer is NO, especially for a sub THAT powerful as the EP500. You need to calibrate the sub using an SPL meter so the dial matches the speaker (which is likely to be about 20-30% MAX of the dial).

Only if you are outside a safe distance from any structures. When I got mine I misread the manual and set the volume knob to the 9 O’clock position (the manual said half way between 6 and 9). The very low frequency sound from the calibration disk started rattling windows, dishes in the kitchen and something inside the TV before I could find the pause button.

Assuming the orientation of the volume knob is that same on yours try setting it to half way between 6-9 O’clock. Crossover at 80 for all speakers. Don’t use LFE+mains or whatever setting your receiver has for sending the signal to both the subwoofer and the mains. From there you can try adjusting the subwoofer level in the receiver’s channel level menu up or down by ear until you hear what you like.

Another possibility is placement. Try waling around the room to see if you hear the rumble everywhere or just at your seating. If it sounds better in other parts of the room then tweaking the volume controls isn’t going to help much. If you can you might want to try other locations for the sub or move your seating a little.

Ya I know I was trying to explain everything there. Well does anyone own my configuration 2 M22s with the EP500? Are you saying the volume control on the back of the EP500 should only be turned to about 10 o clock when pared with the M22 speakers that would be barely using it. Jeez why did they even recommend the EP500 with my stuff if it is so much of an overkill? No big deal I am going to put one in my living room anyways. OK after turning the sub volume down what else can I do that I havent done. I justed wanted more bass with my music I didnt like the 175 I had that upp all the way it just seemed weak. I dont understand why my 400 dollar 5.1 Klipsch system on my computer sounds better with music(NOT MOVIES) than my new $3000 system. It has to be set way off.

The dial is for gain. Axiom cannot predict in advance how strong/weak your source signal will be. The dial assumes the worst. Your receiver is not the worst. Your receiver + EP500 at 20% propabaly leads to 500WATTS peaks. A weaks source + EP500 at max equals 500WATTS. It's all relative.

You need to get an SPL meter and measure the actual level you need to set your sub to match your speakers and your receiver's configuration. There are no pre-determined answers, except that it is unlikely that your sub needs to be more than 20-30% with modern days equipment.

I have an SPL meter what next. My A/V is the sherwood R772 at 105W/channel. I got that spl meter with a calibration disc which I watched but it didnt really tell me alot . Most of it (because it tells how to hook up your whole system) I have allready done. My system is hooked up right. I tried the SPL part. And then its like I hardly have any bass at all. Now I know what everyone meant when I said I was getting the 500 and sending back my 175 because I thought it was lacking bass musically but it was OK for movies. Everyone said its the other way around for them. Yup now I get it the 175 is better matched for the M22s.

The manual for your receiver should have the rest of the instructions (how to generate the test signals and adjust all channels). Otherwise, there are DVD disks such as Avia that can help you. Some people here might be familiar with your receiver and be more precise.

In any case, I have to leave for a while, but you are in good hands around here.

We cross-posted.
May be you should try compromises between the setup disks that give you too little bass and moving the dial all the way up wich gives you too much.
Some of it is linked to what you like and dislike as bass!
Again, good luck as I am really going now!

Ya thanks I got the Avia disc and did what it said and now I hardly have any bass I cant get a happy medium for some reason its either too much or too little. My system is the epic grand master 500 with the sherwood R772 so I guess its all matched. I would like to try and do it all myself but if I cant I am calling the Geek Squad from bestbuy do they do that does anyone know?

Sub placement might be your next area of exploration. Depending on your room, you might be sitting in a cross-fire that nulls or boots bass frequencies. Try different positions for your sub and see how it affects your situation.

You also do not want to sit mid way into the room. How far is your seating area from the back wall and what is your room length?

th3at3rguy,

Every room is different, we can't tell you what adjustment's to make with your sub/m22's/and your room. We can give you pointers. There is no way you want the volume (gain) on the back of the sub cranked all the way. Most of us have our EP500's and EP600's set very low, around 6-7 o'clock on the knob.

You want to run the built in test tones on the receiver and use an SPL meter, to calibrate everything to about 75dB's. You do this by adjusting the speakers and sub levels on the receivers setup menu up/down until they are at the same dB levels. Many receivers have a built in test tone and microphone that you place in the primary seat, this will also adjust the distance and levels without needing an SPL meter.

This is true with most sub manufactures not just Axiom.

Its my bedroom so this is a small room and I have The entertainment system in a corner with my QS8s on each side of my Bed and the sub parked halfway in the open closet but it isnt really blocked by anything. But like I said I was only getting this in some recordings these really low rumblings it wasnt recorded that low so what gives? The subsonic filter is on so either the filter is faulty or my setup. I wont know til I get a pro then if he says its the speaker they can send me another amp and I will put it in myself. Its a new design so who knows maybe the filter wasnt put in by mistake.

The reason for the EP500 over the EP175 is to have something that plays lower with more authority. For most music it’s output is total overkill as is any other really good subwoofer which is why having it turned up will give you way to much deep bass.

Are you having this problem when listening to music in 5.1/7.1 or are you just using 2.1. If it sounds fine in 5/7.1 but not 2.1 then there is probably an menu option in the receiver to set up 2ch stereo + sub. You may need to change the setting here to match what you’ve set for 5/7.1.

If the sub sounds to weak after using your SPL meter and calibration disk then you may just be someone who likes a lot of bass. The calibration gives you a good starting point but many people tweak the final setting to taste from there. However, before automatically tweaking everything It’s often beneficial to use the base settings for a while as you may actually like them realizing you actually had to much bass before.

I mentioned placement before and should reiterate that sub and seating placement are the first places to start when calibrating your system. You may not have much placement flexibility but if you do the first try finding the best location for the subwoofer.

If you haven’t already read them here are several articles here that can help you setup your subwoofer and integrate it to the rest of your system.

Articles

This one for placement:

How to Find the Best Place for Your Subwoofer

6 or 7 o clock is barely on why have such a powerful sub if your not going to use it? Or when does one ever turn it up? I really dont know anything about this stuff guys so feel free to explain. I just dont get it. Its all in 5.1 what I listen too even my 2 channel is in 5.1. All my Live music sounds fine its just some recordings all my SACDs for one. Movies sound fine also. But someone here said that there is subsonic noise from the studio that is left because normally it cant be heard but now with these subs it can and thats what the subsonic filter is suppose to do. I hope I just have it set wrong but more and more I am thinking the sub sonic filter is not working is there any way to check???

Hmmm, its always hard to tell what someone is looking for. Any of the EP350/400/500 are quite a step up from the 175 and will produce a lot of volume in a small room. They represent the current state of subs. The EP175 is quite dated.

The other thing that you get is much better performance below 40Hz. You will notice it on classical music and any thing with a lot of synth. I'm waiting for you to play your first movie.

Unfortunately you cannot separate the higher volume from the better performance below 40Hz in most subs You get both or neither. You don't need to use all that extra volume you have, and you will begin to appreciate the better performance below 40Hz with movies and any music below that range.

As for the EP175 being a better match for the M22s, thats no more true than saying its a better match with the 60/80. Maybe if you are playing only music with content above 40Hz in a small room, but in any other situation I would disagree.

Get your sub dialed in to your taste, listen for a while, and then let us know what you think.

You are focusing on the "volume knob". It IS NOT a "volume knob", it is for gain. You will be using the power of the 500 when you match levels like was mentioned several times.

Just like any other pre amp the sub out from the receiver has a lot to do with how much the "gain knob" is turned up. It sends a low level signal to the sub amp were it is amplified, which varies per receiver used. That's why the sub, any sub, has variable gain control.

Well it says volume right next to it so I called it a volume knob. Tell axiom its labeled wrong. Just kidding I get what your saying.

It very well might but in reality it is a gain control.

Like EFalardeau said the reason for the gain knob on the subwoofer is to balance it with the rest of your system. Different receivers and preamps can have different output strength going to the subwoofer. The gain knob allows you to adjust the signal going to the subwoofer so that the subwoofers output is roughly in balance with the speakers. If you had a very weak receiver you would turn it up more but since you have a good receiver you don’t need to.

From there you fine tune all the speakers and subwoofer with test tones and an SPL meter to balance them all. And then if you’re like me you write that down to use as a baseline (so you don’t have to recalibrate again) and then start turning up the subwoofer and surround/back speakers higher where you really like them.

The filter will cut out whatever is below the level it’s set for 20Hz 15Hz not sure. I guaranty you that sound in the 20-25-30-35-40 Hz range will shake the crap out of your room and no sane subwoofer manufacture is going to filter those frequencies out.

Rick, just for the sake of technical accuracy, those controls aren't actually gain controls, even if some manufacturers use that term. Amplifiers, including those in subs, have a fixed gain, typically around 30dB, which increases the incoming voltage on the order of 25-30 times. That doesn't vary. What is varied by that loudness control(which is a variable resistor)is the proportion of the incoming voltage that is sent into the amplifier to be subjected to the fixed gain. At the highest setting essentially all of the incoming voltage is let through to be amplified, while at the lowest setting nearly all of the incoming voltage is blocked.

Thanks John, learn something new everyday. So, is it a volume knob?

Well I have a SPL meter and a test tone button right on my remote so I want all the speakers at the same level or what please explain if I can do this myself I will. So I was right in calling it a volume knob HAHA Oh and thanks for the help forum.

Yeah, it is. I used the generic term "loudness control".

I'll be damned.

Looks like it

It is my understanding whether your volume (gain, loudness) knob is cranked all the way, or all the way down, your still getting all 500 watts, like Rick mentioned. The point is you need to set the dB levels the same with the other speakers, normally 75dB's is a good starting point. This can be accomplished by adjusting the levels of the sub on the sub AND the receiver in combination to achieve this level. So if you have the sub adjustment higher than normal, you will have to adjust the receivers sub level very low to achieve 75dBs, OR if you have the sub level very low, the receiver level will be adjusted higher to achieve the same level. On most subs, you can put the knob at the midway point, however, the EP subs gain is naturally higher than many other brands, this is why it has to be set very low. My 600 is 6 o'clock and my room is 30ft x 31ft x 9ft and it blows me out of the room.

Well movies sound great on the EPIC grand master 500 but so far music is just OK sorry. I hope its just my settings maybe I should have just made the space and got the M80s but there is no more room in my bedroom. I cant believe thats the best I can get musically out of it. Oh wait I still only have the VP100 center but the 150 center is on the way will that make any diff in the music? Also I grew up with an audiophile so my judgement may be diff from others

Guy, could you be more specific about what hasn't completely satisfied you with the music? I use the M22s and EP500 for about 99% music and the reproduction is superb on even the most demanding classical recordings.

I am comparing it to my 7 year old $400 Klipsch system I have hooked up to my computer ( Klipsch Promedia 5.1 which they dont make anymore). I listen to alot of classic rock and that old system still sounds great and I feel the music more than from my new axiom system musically but not for movies which axiom blows it away. I must have the settings wrong it cant be right. I just checked behind the sub and the crossover was off so I just put it at 80Hz per the instructions so that probably contributed. But til I get a pro in I will give them the benefit of the doubt. My new system should blow that away but the xover was off.

I have both M22s and M80s with an EP500. Running the M22s with the EP500 gives me about 95% of the performance of the M80s + EP500 in my medium size room. In a small room the M80s will give you very expensive stands for the upper portion with is basically an M22 with and extra tweeter.

If you haven’t already get the EP500 out of the closet and try to keep the driver away from the walls.

For calibration try this replacing the test disk if you don’t have one with the test tones on your receiver:

Step one: Have a pint or two cause you’re stressing to much to enjoy anything you hear right now. Then do this:

Calibrate Speakers with a Sound Meter

Thanks Im not stressed at all (in wheelchair with medical m) I just want to get it right and am a little anal with every little detail. like I said the xover was off by accident so this could all be for nil. Cant really check because everyone is sleeping but me but thanks for that link you guys are great.

The crossover on the back of the sub should almost always be set to bypass and you should control the crossover from your receiver.

Smoke em if ya got em

The instructions said to put the Xover at what I have the A/V at is that wrong? Excuse me it wasnt at off it was at 150hz it does not have an off on this new design or a trim. It said if using your amps xover to just set it what your A/V is at.

Yes use the max setting 150Hz if they no longer have a bypass setting. Setting the crossover that high is effectively the same thing as bypass with the speakers you have.

Guy, yes, leave the low-pass filter setting all the way up at 150Hz so that it doesn't interfere with the 80Hz crossover that the receiver is doing.

Turning the crossover on the sub to it's highest setting is the thing to do. That is if there is no bypass.

Ya but the instructions say when using your amps xover to put it at 80hz if my amp is set at 80hz and mention my M22s and says to only use the bypass if your woofer on the front is 4 inches or less (mine are 5 and a quarter inches) but I will try both its just a pain yanking out with my wheelchair that thing is heavy. I may have to call them on this because its a new design

I think it was Alan who has commented on getting some positive results by setting the low-pass filter on the subwoofer to the same as the crossover in the receiver but I thought that was only for certain situations. Perhaps Axioms has tested this more and found the with the M22 using both works better, so yes contacting them sounds like a good idea.

Hey grunt if thats your system with 3 M80s, 2 m22, 4QS8s and so on that thing has got to rock my man WOW what no Oppo BDP83 I have one haha

Nope no BD here. I’m so far behind the times I don’t even own a cellphone (no kidding). It pisses my bosses off to no end but not a thing they can do about it.

Yep that is my system, though right now I’m only running 2 x M80s, 1 x M22 and 3 x QS8s and 1 x EP500 for a 6.1 system. I’m being lazy about buying a projector and screen so I can use all 3 M80s up front again. I’ll eventually get an Oppo BDP83 but for now I’ve got a couple thousand hours backlog of standard def stuff to watch so I’m in no great hurry. Plus I like to let early adopters like you work the bugs out first.

I am having a problem boosting the 40HZ to 80 HZ range on the EP500 when playing music. Since the new design has no trim control (replaced with subsonic filter)I need advice on how I can boost that range. Everything I tried so far seems to boost the low end then it sounds like too much bass. The R772 does have a parametric equilizer but I have it off. It has 5 equilizer bands were you can increase the dB will this solve it?

How do you know your needing to boost those ranges, are you running graphs to determine, or just using your ears? A flat frequency response across the entire range is the most desired. Without proper placement, room treatments, multiple subs, etc. you may just have to live with what you have, welcome to the joys of subwoofers.

Well I called a high end stereo shop to come out and calibrate everything for the best placement. So if they cant do it then I dont know.

You have to remember your room is the most important part of your system.

Hope it turns out well!

If I lived near you, I'd do it for beer.

Im sure in some alternate universe this is ruler flat, but the is the reality that we deal with.

You either have a placement/room issue, or possibly you are used to a skewed bass response. Most likely its the former.

Let us know how the calibration goes.

The thing about calibrating subwoofer is that it's very hard. It's hard because it's tricky to get a good reading with an SPL meter, because some Avia disc's calibration was wrong, because the receiver plays a great roll, because the room acoustics come into play so much, and because it's hard for humans to figure out non directional sound.

Before the high end guys come out to do the calibration, ask them how they are going to do it. Are they going to just sit in one place and use RS SPL to calibrate it at 75dB across the board?

Do you have someone that can help you with a sub crawl? I know it's a pain in the butt; however, this may be the single biggest bang for the buck adjustment you can make with your sub.

You can use Flight of the Phoenix to generate *LOTS and LOTS* of LFE while doing your subcrawl. Or you can use your pink noise from the AVR.

If you get sick of trying to calibrate it, you can always buy another sub!

Oh, one more thing. How are you listening to your music? I think you mentioned that movies are fine but it's not when listening to music?

What do you use to play your music?

I have the new oppo BDP-83. I play all my Blurays, cds, sacds ect on that and everythings powered by the Sherwood Newcastle R772. I dont know my buddy has a pair of 40 year old Pioneer HPM-100s that sounds amazing why cant I get my 5.1 system to sound that good. He is an an electrical engineer and audiophile. He moved away last year or I would have him set it all up for me. I remember mt brother owned that model back in 1979 but I forgot how good they sounded til he fired em up for me last summer...my jaw dropped. I dont know why I cant get that with my new system. I know mine are bookshelfs basically (m22s) but paired with that EP500 I would think I could blow away a set of 40 year olds speakers. Dont get me wrong it sounds good and clear but those HPM100s man I cant explain it. Anyone remember those things. I am probably going have to get a better front bookshelf speaker. Axioms best is what I have I dont have the room in my bedroom for M80s or any of their floostanding. If after the pro comes out and I still am not happy can anyone recommend a speaker no bigger than the M22 that is any better. My price limit is $1200

In my humble opinion, if you can't get that system to sound good in that room then a more expensive set of bookshelves isn't going to do any better. At that point work on the room, not the system. You have what should be a great sounding system.

I'm sorry, but I've got to say it. If you're a fan of the Klipsh ProMedia system, you're used to rather bloated bass. I can see why you would think that the EP500 wasn't doing it for you; the Promedia's probably pretty boosted in the 100-200Hz range in relation (just guessing on the frequency range; call it mid-bass.)

The thing is, it could be that Oppo is wigging out when play audio CDs because of some settings. It's 100% configurable if nothing else. Also, there are many settings with modern AVRs that could be causing this. Have you tried playing the audio CD with a plain old DVD player? (not SACDs of course) Might be worth ruling things out. For the first time, I ordered 5 SACDs off of Amazon. I was curious if I would hear the difference or not between audio CD and SACD. I'm doubtful but I figured I had to try. I ordered two classical SACDs (Handel/Mozart), Brothers in Arms, Billy Joel, Journey and Boston. The reviews on Amazon were fairly positive some I'm very curious! It should get here on Tuesday so we'll see.

I haven't tweaked my Oppo too much yet, but after the SACDs get here, I'll see if there's anything that jumps out (setting wise)

I've thought the same thing as Ken.

Often when someone says this new system doesn't sound as good as my computer system or my $400 HTIB, either some setting is very wrong or they have been conditioned to think a poor sound is a correct one.

Ditto that. It's easy to get used to "fat" bass as sounding good if you've only ever heard bloated and boomy bass. It will take your ears a bit of time to let go of that affinity and readjust to the new presentation. Once that happens, you'll never go back.

It also seems easy to overdrive the sub when you first have it if you've never had a sub before. I certainly did.

I dont get it the EP500 should still be able to blow a $400 computer system out of the water. I dont really notice it musically but I do for movies. The thing is I asked axiom if I would notice it musically if I upgraded from the EP175 to the EP500 and of coarse they said oh ya you will get a big peformance boost well I still dont notice it musically. And unless I turn the volume way up I hardly hear it at all even if I am right next to it the driver is hardly even moving unless the volume is past 12o clock. I have played everything DVDs, CDs and sacds. Movies sound great though the M22s are very midrange oriented so they are perfect for that. So either I am going deaf or I dont know but once my new center gets here a pro is coming out to configure this I am sick of wondering what I am doing wrong.

A subwoofer is like salt. You should only notice it when it is missing. If you can "taste" the sub, then you have too much. If you're used to over-the-top, bloated, flabby bass, then the musical, subdued Axiom subs may seem lacking. Try turning it off when you're playing some music. You'll hear it go away; even if you didn't think it was there to start.

I like to play "name that bass line". Take a boomy sub and turn off the rest of the speakers. Have someone play a track and see if you can identify the song only by the <80 Hz component. With a good, musical sub this usually isn't a problem. But with a one-note boomer, if you can't pick out the song by the rhythm, you're stuck because there's no melody.

Hmm, if it's that lacking something must be up. When I get my SACD tomorrow, I'll play it on the Oppo to see I get. It'll give me a chance to play around with the settings.

One thing though, are you bitstreaming (dolby/DTS) on the Oppo or sending out everything as PCM? The great bitstream/pcm debate is usually reserved for Blu-ray discs, but I'm wondering who's doing the bass management.

I like that analogy.

I can't wait to see what the experts do.

Here's the thing, a lot of people buy audio equipment with a certain sound in mind, and hope the equipment they buy gives off that sound. If it doesn't, they're disappointed. What they don't do is get to know the sound of the equipment they buy and give themselves time to enjoy it. Most speakers sound a bit different. If you get used to a certain pair (those Pioneer's you spoke of) and like them, that's great. But don't buy a set of Axiom's expecting them to sound like them, because they won't.

However get to know the Axioms, you may develop a fondness for them the same way you did those Pioneer's. Then again, you may not. There isn't a speaker out there that EVERYONE loves. It could be that Axiom's are not your brand. If not then after 30 days call up Axiom and say, "thanks but no thanks", that's what their guarantee is all about.

Just be sure to give them a chance to win you over. And by the way I agree, the EP500 should absolutely rock a bedroom down to it's foundations. So if it isn't, then I'm thinking something may be a-rye the same as you are thinking.

Oh and just for the record, I also like my bass. I'm not a 'flat bass response' kind of guy either. I have my EP800 set at 6 o'clock (about 50%) and it pounds. An expert may tell me it's set too high, but God damn it that's the way I like it!

That’s the great thing about home theater and audio…you can have it your way, experts be dammed.

Yeah, thank God Burger King doesn't have a monopoly on 'having it your way'!

I like to run my subs hot for movies . Music on the other hand, no.

Exactly that EP500 should be booming big time and it is not I even turn it all the way up it seems to just want to go below 40HZ at least to my ears. But thats when I play music movies seems fine but then again I am new to home theater. And I have used the auto config just to see and it set all my crossovers at 200hz and the channel levels all at like -12. When I told the "experts" that they said usally on thier high end amps with audessy? its right on. Which suprised me because my instructions say those things rarely work. I hope those guys know what they are doing because they charge $75/hour

I would call Axiom then...I still think it is room related.

I am going to wait til I have the pros come in if they say there is a problem then yes I will definitly call them. But the sub works fine watching movies. Its just music. Question is the M22 considererd a large or small speaker I have my oppo settings on LG.

M22 should definitely be set to small.

That could be one of your problems, if the receiver is sending stuff to your M22's that they can't handle, you're missing out on the bass in those frequencies that are getting lost. Try setting them to small and see if the missing bass shows up.

Beyond that its hard for me to understand how a room could completely saturate all of the bass coming out of the EP500? He was saying that sitting right next to it he can hardly hear it, & that the woofer cone barely moves. The woofer cones on my EP800 move so much they'd break my finger if I tried to touch them during some songs. So to me it definately sounds like a set-up or possibly an amp problem.

And they should be set to "small" in the receiver's configuration, not the Oppo. The Oppo's setting only controls the analog outputs.

That could be the SOLE problem.

It just might be that the way the receiver is set up, the LFE of movies gets dutifully sent to the sub... and he's reporting movies sound great.

But, as Micah said, with music, you're assigning bass to the M22s that they can't reproduce. In stereo mode, your subs' woofer won't be moving because you've directed all your bass away from it to a speaker that doesn't reproduce deeper bass..... and there's your hole. (shut up, Peter!)

Thanks I will re set it but I wasnt really letting the Oppo manage anything anyways and even when I listen to music on the TV with out the oppo even on it sounded the same. And according to Home theater definition small is anything with a 4.5 inch woofer and smaller the M22 has 2, 5 and a quarter inch woofers so they say its large. This is why I am calling pros one person says one thing then I read another thing the opposite. My A/V does not ask if its small or large just what crossover which I have at 80Hz and distance and channel level and thats about it but it does have a room EQ which I have off. so it cant be the problem what I have the Oppo player at. What Micah is saying makes me think the sub or the sherwood might have a problem the driver is never moving like he describes. I can barely see it moving during all songs CRAP. my A/V crossover is at 80Hz on every speaker so I cant be assigning the bass to the M22s right? I take that back if I crank it all the way up see it movving quite a bit and then I get that rumbling bass that isnt even part of the song

And when I turn up bass heavy rap it doesnt really sound good and the bass sounds distorted. It figures I get the one EP500 that has something wrong with it. Or my sherwood newcastle r772 has a problem but something is wrong somewhere this system should sound great.

The fact that it sounds great with movies leads me to believe that there is a setting somewhere for stereo mode that is not sending bass to the sub correctly.

I have went through every setting on my Sherwood R772 so many times and tried everything. I am going to have the stereo guys bring another amp to see how it sounds also. But I hope they solve this. It is the best stereo shop we have out here in Flint Michigan so I will let you guys know. I wish I wasnt such a perfectionist with everything I own. I also own a $10,000 computer (see digitalstormonline.com) I know they hate me because they had to replace so much stuff on it til it was perfect.