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#270953 - 08/27/09 10:57 PM Re: The world's newest Axiomite it born... [Re: Micah]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7031
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
Ok, time for the phase test. Could they have sent this big guy to me with the speakers out of phase??? It seems highly unlikely

Things happen. Changing phase is not that hard so do test that. While you have a driver out, play something at low volume to confirm that both drivers are working. If neither fixes the sub, send it back.

Edit: I see Alan posted a very simple method of testing to see if the drivers are in phase and working. Time to find a battery.


Edited by fredk (08/27/09 10:59 PM)
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#270954 - 08/27/09 11:03 PM Re: The world's newest Axiomite it born... [Re: fredk]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17739
Loc: NoVA
You've tried something other than Iron Man, right, with the crackling present? Can you confirm it with a direct connection to the sub (ie, an iPod or something)? I mean, I know that it keeps doing this, it just seems highly unlikely that it would due to a problem with the sub, what with every single component being replaced! Could it possibly be the output on your receiver?
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#270961 - 08/28/09 01:27 AM Re: The world's newest Axiomite it born... [Re: Ken.C]
Micah Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1789
Loc: Indiana you hoser!!!!
I am mystified. I did the battery test (cool test) and they are indeed in-phase, and both working. I guess the eyes are easily tricked because my fiancee and I both could have SWORE they moved independently from each other... that's crazy.

 Originally Posted By: kcarlile
You've tried something other than Iron Man, right, with the crackling present?



Oh yes, I certainly haven't left all this up to one track on one movie. It's present in just about any action movie I play with a lot of LFE in the sound track. One of the very few songs that can get them to 'pop' is Madonna's 'Rain'. After I played 'Iron Man' again and discovered the problem persisted, I turned all of the speakers besides the EP800 off and played 'Rain' at -10 on the Denon (for all you who don't own a Denon, my 4802's volume knob goes from -70 to +12) and they started popping then as well. Watching the drivers, they make the sound while they seem to be traveling at maximum excursion. But very few music tracks can actually push a subwoofer that far. It's mostly only in movies during scenes that have 'inaudible' soundwaves flowing heavily that push my drivers to react this way. Man this just totally has me befuddled. How on earth can I change out all of the components in this thing and there still be a problem???

Here are the facts, it was shipped with a bad amp. It started blowing fuses on the first day I had it, and that was a clear indication that the amp was toast. So they shipped me a new amp. I installed it and it worked like a dream. Then the first time I put a movie in (I believe either 'Iron Man' or 'Dark Knight') I noticed the speakers seemed to be bottoming out. After listening very close to a few more movies I realized there definately was some sort of problem. After much experimentation with placement, tightening things down, and getting it away from anything that it might be too close to and possibly making the 'rattling' sound, it did indeed seem as though one or both of the drivers were bad. So I sent off for a new driver, thinking that perhaps the faulty driver had burned up the amp while it was trying to push it! I received the new driver, installed it, and found that I hadn't solved the problem. Now my theory changed to the fact that the amp had been bad from the get-go, and most likely damaged both drivers accordingly. So I sent off for another driver, received it today, intalled it, and still with the fucking 'popping' sound... WHAT THE HELL COULD IT BE?????

I'm just so frusterated (not with Axiom, they have done anything and everything I've asked of them with more professionalism and genuine interest in resolving my issues as I've ever seen a company treat a customer with a problem.... my hat is off to you Axiom, and all of the truely great people working for you) and grumpy (nor with anyone on this forum, everyone's suggestions have been welcomed and appreciated... thank you all), because nothing seems to be able to phase this problem in the least. I mean how could it be that such a seemingly minor difficulty would absolutely refuse to react to any logical solution? It's wearing me out.

I can try the MP3 player test, but first I'll have to get a cord to connect it. When I connect it, will it just play the bass track? I suppose it could be the Denon's line out, but shouldn't the DSP chip refuse to allow it to bottom out reguardless??? That's what really has me blowing fuses in my brain, I can't understand how this could possibly be happening? At this point the only other far-out possibility that I could even fathom is that the cabinet itself has a flaw (after all it's the ONLY thing left that we haven't tried switching out yet eh) that creates the 'popping' sound whenever the bass gets really, really low.

I suppose I have been just a bit too patient. I guess there is a time when you just have to throw in the towel and say, "I give up", and let the professionals handle it. I didn't think it would be this difficult. How many things can go wrong with a subwoofer anyhow? Seems to me as if we've pretty much covered all the bases, and yet we've gotten nowhere. It's as if God just doesn't want me to have the ultimate subwoofer in my HT. Why God, what have I ever done to deserve this??? (don't answer that)


CALGON TAKE ME AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#270963 - 08/28/09 01:38 AM Re: The world's newest Axiomite it born... [Re: Micah]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17739
Loc: NoVA
Yeah, it'll play what it's capable of playing up to (I think 150Hz?) You could also do this with just hte left or right analog out on a CD player.
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#270964 - 08/28/09 01:55 AM Re: The world's newest Axiomite it born... [Re: Micah]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10359
Yeah Micah, puzzling indeed. I'm not quite at the point that we'd reached with Randy and the mysterious goings on in his HT when I suggested that he call in a priest for an exorcism, but we're getting there.

Edit: deleted a comment about doing the battery test for polarity, since I now see that you've done it and found no problem there. Shows that in audio we can't trust either our ears or our eyes! One step closer to an exorcism?


Edited by JohnK (08/28/09 02:21 AM)
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#270970 - 08/28/09 05:39 AM Re: The world's newest Axiomite it born... [Re: Ken.C]
Micah Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1789
Loc: Indiana you hoser!!!!
Sweet Lincon's Mullet... that is one cool ass test!!!

Ok so I got the Sandisk out and hooked it up through a cord that hooks into the single input of the MP3 player then splits out into left/right... I hooked up the right side. I played 'Rain' (what else), and Good God Almighty, it seemed like it was outputting TWICE the amount of bass!!! I supposed this could be because the MP3 player was turned almost all of the way up compared to the Denon only being at around 2/3rds of the way up, eh?

So anyway, yeah it really rocked the house, I thought the speakers were at full excursion before... HELL NO!!! They were REALLY moving in and out while hooked up to the MP3 player, let me tell you!!! Anyhow, very ineresting observation, dispite them moving so much more, the clicking sound as actually not as bad. Yes it was still there, so there is still a problem, but why would it not be as bad??? That one has me stumped!

At any rate it sounds like a problem I'm not soon to figure out on my own, so it's still time to hand it over to the professionals.
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#270977 - 08/28/09 09:37 AM Re: The world's newest Axiomite it born... [Re: Micah]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4069
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
You might want to try a full reset on your denon (write down the values set up for the speakers, distances, manually re-enter the values and try some more tests while waiting to return it.
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#270981 - 08/28/09 09:53 AM Re: The world's newest Axiomite it born... [Re: Micah]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
 Originally Posted By: Micah
...it seemed like it was outputting TWICE the amount of bass!!! I supposed this could be because the MP3 player was turned almost all of the way up compared to the Denon only being at around 2/3rds of the way up, eh?

Oops, no one said to turn your player down before starting the test?

Yeah, almost full headphone level is way more voltage than 2/3rd of line level. -- Although some newer players do change the impedance they are driving and switch to line levels when lower than headphone impedance is detected. Still that would put out full line level, which would be like having the receiver at -0 dB.
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#270987 - 08/28/09 10:43 AM Re: The world's newest Axiomite it born... [Re: Micah]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
 Originally Posted By: Micah

At any rate it sounds like a problem I'm not soon to figure out on my own, so it's still time to hand it over to the professionals.


I again say call UPS, but is there any way you can get another sub (even a buy and return to Best Buy, etc) just to make sure your Denon is having a problem on LFE decoding? No doubt the sub has issues, but if you have a buggy chip that is dropping occasional bombs this problem will occur on any sub. Any, if this is the problem, you would not get the issue on non-LFE material. Just a shot in the dark, I heard you were dying for a few more wild ideas to try.

P.S. - I assume you already tested the ionic polarity by facing the sub to the east and playing Prince's Darling Nikki backwards on a turntable? If you don't hear Willy Wonka doing Gregorian Chant then the DTS sub-matrix is clearly out of whack. That should always be your first test.

For what it is worth, my cheap B&W sub does not output at a super high volume (10" w/ 300 wpc), but I've never heard a peep out of it that didn't sound right - even if "right" was over extension, or bottoming out due to my over zealous volume knob. So don't lower your expectations on this - you deserve a top flight sub for this price and should not settle for less just because we all think Axiom is a great company with great products and even better support. In the end, the product must stand on its own.
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#271017 - 08/28/09 01:48 PM Re: The world's newest Axiomite it born... [Re: Zimm]
Micah Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1789
Loc: Indiana you hoser!!!!
 Originally Posted By: Zimm

P.S. - I assume you already tested the ionic polarity by facing the sub to the east and playing Prince's Darling Nikki backwards on a turntable? If you don't hear Willy Wonka doing Gregorian Chant then the DTS sub-matrix is clearly out of whack. That should always be your first test.



Twice yesterday... once for each driver!
_________________________
My Stuff :

M80's
QS8's
VP150
EP800
Denon 4802
Emotiva XPA-3
Samsung BD-P3600
Sharp 65 Inch Aquos LCD

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