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#286124 - 01/09/10 02:42 PM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: alan]
fredk Online   happy
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7234
Loc: Canada
I had the opportunity to do an A/B comparison at the Axiom plant, I would agree with what others have said.

As Alan pointed out, the biggest difference is in the bass. The M80 plays the bass stuff with much more authority: more than the specs would seem to indicate. It would be easy to pick the M80s out in any blind tests.

I also compared them to the M22+ sub (M22 is considered more detailed) and here is what I found. The M80 seemed to open up the top end: give it more transparency. Similarly, a sub seemed to open up the bottom end. Noticably so on stuff that had content in the 20-30Hz range like the keyboard stuff on ELPs debut album.

For about a $300 difference, you get noticably extended bass until you buy a sub plus the more subtle differences in the Mids/high end. For me it was worth it.
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#286126 - 01/09/10 02:55 PM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: fredk]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10966
Loc: Central NH
Will you guys please stop making me want M80s, EP800s with new amps and, speaking of which....amps?

Thank! You!
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#286135 - 01/09/10 04:15 PM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: MarkSJohnson]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10400
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
But that is what we are here for Mark \:\)
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#286144 - 01/09/10 06:17 PM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: jakewash]
fredk Online   happy
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7234
Loc: Canada
I almost forgot to mention, M80s sound particularly good in square rooms.
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#286168 - 01/09/10 08:01 PM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: fredk]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana

Just something I think we should clear up when applying generalizations like “frequencies below 80 Hz are non-directional” which like many generalizations is over simplified. They are directional. AFAIK all waves propagating through a medium are directional. The question is whether or not one can perceive them in a specific situation. I’ve been knocked down in the direction of travel by the shock (sound) wave of a tank main gun firing. I’ve watched a seismic wave travel from one end of a long hallway to another in a building. Almost daily I feel the thump on my chest each time an engine on my aircraft lights off. If I’m facing away from the aircraft I feel the thump on my back.

There are many factors that influence out ability to perceive the directionality of bass like: limitations of our senses (the lower the frequency the harder to locate), personal perception (some people locate bass easier than others), intensity of the sound (more intense sounds are easier to locate), enclosed space (reflected sound waves mask the direction of sounds depending on their frequency and the size of the room), distance from source (effects intensity but also can allow the sound to reach us before reflections effect it), direction of source (sounds coming from the expected direction “usually the front” don’t stand out as much as sounds coming from unexpected directions) and I‘m probably missing some.

Telling someone to set all there speakers to small and cross them at 80 may be a good starting point, and for the average person it might also be a good ending point. However, I submit that most people posting in or even lurking around forums like this want to know more about and get something more out their system than just the average person. I believe we do them a disservice when giving canned answers that either get repeated often enough that they become gospel or are foisted on us by entities like THX, Dolby and Audyssey who all have their own reasons for preferring particular settings but have no knowledge of the situation under which the equipment is being used.
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#286173 - 01/09/10 08:24 PM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: grunt]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6622
Loc: It's all about the location.
People should feel free to experiment with different crossovers and settings on their speakers, rather than conform to what is believed by the masses. They may well like the "preferred" setup but then again, why not try setting the fronts to full range....isn't this Ian's preferred setup vs Alan's 80hz small recommendation on the fronts(correct me if I'm wrong)? In the end, whatever YOU like is the right setup.
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#286195 - 01/09/10 09:09 PM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: Adrian]
Argon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/24/04
Posts: 1443
Loc: Oak Ridge, NC
The one thing that I sweated on the cheaper Yamaha that I purchased was the inability to set independant crossover points. In practice, I haven't really noticed any issues. Mine are set at 80 but I can bypass in the pure direct mode.
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#286200 - 01/09/10 09:35 PM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: tomtuttle]
LT61 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 836
Loc: Illinois.
 Quote:
Well, at least when Rick threw me and Larry under the bus, he posted a nice picture.


I didn't expect Rick to say the M60s sounded best to him. ;\)
I have always conceded that in a head to head, the edge would have go to the M80s.

However, I think given the 4ohm aspects, and amplification requirements the M80's have.........M60s (and other Axiom speakers) would be a better choice for many. (IMO)

Still glad I chose my M60s.
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LIFE: "Choices, balance, and timing"

(Larryism)

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#286222 - 01/09/10 11:53 PM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: grunt]
fredk Online   happy
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7234
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
Just something I think we should clear up when applying generalizations like “frequencies below 80 Hz are non-directional” which like many generalizations is over simplified... However, I submit that most people posting in or even lurking around forums like this want to know more about and get something more out their system than just the average person.

Then one should talk about the Schrodinger/Schroer (or whatever it is) point. That being the point at which sound waves change from behaving like a wave to behaving more like a ray. That can be between 150 and 300Hz (room dependant). The point being that it is at this point that sound waves become more easy to localize. Hope I didn't mangle that too much, I can't find my original reference.


Edited by fredk (01/09/10 11:54 PM)
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Fred

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#286224 - 01/09/10 11:57 PM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: Adrian]
fredk Online   happy
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7234
Loc: Canada
 Originally Posted By: Adrian
People should feel free to experiment with different crossovers and settings on their speakers, rather than conform to what is believed by the masses.

Did you learn nothing through 12 or 13 years of school?? Conform or suffer the consequences... ;\)
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