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#31426 - 01/23/04 05:40 PM Re: Subwoofer Advice
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17739
Loc: NoVA
Just out of curiosity, why do you prefer the Hsus? Have you heard the SVSs? Not to start a flame war or anything, just curious.
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#31427 - 01/23/04 06:22 PM Re: Subwoofer Advice
spiffnme Offline
axiomite

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 5214
Loc: Los Angeles
It's mostly the way the companies handle themselves online. I've read to many things written by SVS badmouthing their competition. Hsu has always stayed above the fray and let their subs do the talking. (In my experience anyway. I've by no means read every thread on every board regarding subs.)

One other thing that kinda bugs me (and honestly it really shouldn't) is that SVS seems to simply take Hsu design ideas, make a bigger version, and then brag that their is bigger. Like I said, why should I care?

Finally, I know of only two instances in which someone has done a side-by-side comparison, and in both cases the Hsu was preferred. Alas, I've not had the chance to do my own side-by-side comparison. You'd have to do some digging, but an Axiom board member some time ago posted a quick note about their own experience.

This by NO means is to say SVS doesn't make a great sub! Compared to most subs out there I'm sure SVS blows them away. I think the point is that SVS and Hsu both are so far ahead of the competion, there's really no reason to buy something else. Most people who swear by "their" sub, whether it be SVS or Hsu, can only compare it to what they had before. And regardless of what that was, their new SVS or Hsu is going to kick it's butt.

Does that make any sense?
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#31428 - 01/23/04 06:52 PM Re: Subwoofer Advice
willscary Offline
veteran

Registered: 10/19/03
Posts: 129
Loc: east central Wisconsin
Spiff, I usually enjoy reading your posts, and generally agree with you. Here, however, I do not.

I have heard Hsu subs, and for the same price, prefer the SVS. The Hsu subs are great, but as I said, at the same price point, my feeling is that the SVS outperforms it. We all have our own opinions, and although mine may be right for me, it may not be for you. You may indeed find the Hsu to be better, and that is fine. When you say that Tom or Ron take pot shots at other subs, cutting them down, I disagree. They will tell you that there are other great subs out there, but at a price point they feel they have a better product. Then they cite extension, output, and distortion figures to support their claims. The funny thing is, many others agree. John Johnson says there is NO better sub other than DIY subs for the price of an SVS 25-31PCi.

As for SVS taking the Hsu design...I remember when Hsu first introduced the cylinder sub. It was considered a huge development. It is a naturally strong, yet inexpensive enclosure. That is why many, many DIY subs are created using this design. The guys at SVS are DIY guys who decided that they could make money with their "home builts" and did so. The problem is, if you create a product at a certain price point, and it is inferior to a well-known brand, who is going to buy it? They have to be bigger, louder, deeper than Hsu at the same price, or they wouldn't be competitive.

This isn't a flame war, and as I said, I almost always like your posts. I only want to voice my opinion that SVS is not the corrupt blaspheming company who spreads lies and untruths about your beloved Hsu. While you may disagree with their assessment of competing products, I am quite sure they are honest about what theirs will do. The reason I believe this? Impartial reviews from Nousaine and Johnson, along with my own measurements between my buddies Hsu and my 16-46PCi. We both like both subs, and we both agree that the SVS is slightly deeper. As for being strained or unmusical, they both sound very good at our listening levels. He is very happy with his, as I am with mine.
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#31429 - 01/23/04 06:58 PM Re: Subwoofer Advice
Raindance Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 170
Loc: Minnesota
I think they're both great companies- albeit both their message boards have a sort of 'slant' that I don't see at Axiom's.

It'd be great if they aknowledged each other, but that runs into the prisoner's dillemma.

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#31430 - 01/23/04 07:07 PM Re: Subwoofer Advice
spiffnme Offline
axiomite

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 5214
Loc: Los Angeles
No flames intended on my part either. I tried to go out of my way to say that SVS makes a great sub.

In reply to:

...along with my own measurements between my buddies Hsu and my 16-46PCi




I'm curious which Hsu you compared to.

In reply to:

I only want to voice my opinion that SVS is not the corrupt blaspheming company who spreads lies and untruths about your beloved Hsu.




If it seemed that I was suggesting that, I appologize. The things I've read were simply more along the lines of "Ours is better, theirs sucks" type of things. No outright lies, and such. Just some, what I'd consider, juvenile behavior.

The bottom line is, if you need a new sub, you're not likely to be disapointed in either SVS or Hsu.
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#31431 - 01/23/04 07:39 PM Re: Subwoofer Advice
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8268
Loc: Tacoma
I'm shopping for a sub. Like most such endeavours, price is a factor. I'm settled on a down-firing, box sub. I had been tending toward a STF-2 or VTF-2, mostly because they are $100-200 less than the PB1-ISD.

But now, I'm not so sure. I've heard none of these products, so I am clearly just talking out my vortex port here.

The recent and (IMO) significant problems Hsu has had launching the STF line are really giving me pause. QA has been poor, customer service (from the looks of the boards there) has been marginal. They seem to be bungling the whole business, while blaming the production problems on the factory in China. Plus, they always seem to have inventory problems. They obviously have relationship issues with CompUSA, and they are in joint development with BIC - not exactly impressive company to me. The overall impression, to me, is one of wasting technological prowess by business ineptitude.

Now, please understand, I don't want to bash Hsu. I don't own one, and Hsu owners like Craig always provide compelling, impassioned reviews - opinions that I believe and trust. But I am beginning to wonder whether it would be a prudent investment for me to spend a little more on the SVS to get a larger woofer and more powerful amp from a more vertically-integrated company.

Does anybody here have experience with the SVS box subs?


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#31432 - 01/23/04 07:43 PM Re: Subwoofer Advice
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17739
Loc: NoVA
Peter's got one. I'm pretty impressed with the thing from what I've heard of it, and it blends really well with his M22s.
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#31433 - 01/23/04 08:04 PM Re: Subwoofer Advice
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16258
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
tom,

My SVS PS1-ISD is an incredible sub. Everything you can reasponably ask a sub to do is there in spades: depth, punch, speed, wow-factor, musicality, knick-knack-knocking, etc.

If you care about this sort of thing, SVS subs are designed and built in the US (Ohio, to be precise). The drivers are built according to SVS spec by TC Sounds in San Diego.
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#31434 - 01/23/04 08:19 PM Re: Subwoofer Advice
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8268
Loc: Tacoma
Thank you, Peter. That is helpful.

You probably know I already care about that stuff. Periodically, I try to temper my made-in-USA, I-belong-to-and-work-for-a-labor-union diatribes for the international and PC among us.

How does the dog feel about the sub?
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#31435 - 01/23/04 10:26 PM Re: Subwoofer Advice
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16258
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
She doesn't seem to mind it all that much with most of the music I play, but when I was playing Medeski, Martin & Wood's Uninvisible the other day, she got the nervous shakes when Retirement Song (track 6) came on. It contains copious amounts of deep bass. She snuck off the couch and hid in the bedroom until I was finished.
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