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#326561 - 10/25/10 02:12 PM Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. [Re: Ken.C]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11168
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
My phantom center will eff you up!

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#326562 - 10/25/10 02:12 PM Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. [Re: Ken.C]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8280
Loc: Tacoma
Ken is correct.
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#326563 - 10/25/10 02:13 PM Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. [Re: Ken.C]
Da_Gimp_Pimp Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 4015
Loc: Sitting down somewhere
Originally Posted By: sirquack
I disagree with everyone, the VP150 is waaaaay better then the VP180. Of course, I don't own a VP180 yet, so basing my opinion on a hunch.
Originally Posted By: kcarlile
Personally, I think the VP100 is the best center speaker that's ever been made.


laugh laugh laugh
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#326582 - 10/25/10 04:35 PM Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. [Re: Da_Gimp_Pimp]
speedbump Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/02/10
Posts: 31
I have seen this opinion (VP180>>>VP150) expressed enough times that there must be truth to it, but I'm still a little confused why this is.

For the most part people respect the M22s, and I've heard it stated more than once, that M22s when properly integrated with a good sub come close to the sound of M80s (at least to a certain volume level, in reasonably-sized rooms).

The VP150 has a third 5.25" driver, yet many say that it sounds weak/thin on things like male vocals. I would think that if it set up with a sub and the right crossover settings, it should (like the M22) sound pretty good.

I do understand that the M22s are ported, and assume that this is the primary difference. The M22s are also spec'd to reach 25 Hz lower than the VP150. Can the extra driver and added efficiency not make up for bass-reflex design, even when properly integrated with a quality sub to cover everything below 85 Hz (or higher)?


Edited by speedbump (10/25/10 04:39 PM)

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#326585 - 10/25/10 04:54 PM Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. [Re: speedbump]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Originally Posted By: speedbump

I do understand that the M22s are ported, and assume that this is the primary difference. The M22s are also spec'd to reach 25 Hz lower than the VP150. Can the extra driver and added efficiency not make up for bass-reflex design, even when properly integrated with a quality sub to cover everything below 85 Hz (or higher)?
Possibly if the enclosre of the VP150 was bigger, the way it is right now I think it comes down to some of the harmonics the ported designs have over the sealed VP100/150. The port just allows male vocals to resonate/react with the room more.

The 150 has an edge over the VP100 and the M22 has the edge over the VP150 but next to the M80s even the M22 sounds a little thin with male dialogue. The best option is still another M80 which most of us are not able to use, thus the VP180 narrows the margin.
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#326588 - 10/25/10 05:42 PM Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. [Re: jakewash]
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Speedbump, are you a mind-reader or something?

So, as I read this thread last evening while listening to a movie on my VP150 CC system, I thought to myself - "you know, this center channel speaker integrates so nicely with my 15" subwoofer that it sure sounds pretty much like a full range speaker."

On the other hand, if the frequency response curve is ruler flat for the VP150 and also for the VP180, why do they sound different at normal listening levels? Could it be that frequency response curves are not really determinative of a speaker's sound quality?

Oh the horror for the positivist-reductionists among us.
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#326589 - 10/25/10 05:53 PM Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. [Re: Ken.C]
LucRaymond Offline
devotee

Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 308
Loc: montreal,qc,canada
Originally Posted By: kcarlile
Personally, I think the VP100 is the best center speaker that's ever been made.


The Axiom AX1.2 eclipse the vp100! I have it in my gym! :-p try to get better than that! :-)

pic, I have the center and bookshelves AX1.5 ! :-)
http://www.axiomaudio.com/images/HomeTheater_AX.jpg
_________________________
M80,M60,M22,AX1.5,VP180,VP150,AX1.2,QS8
Emotiva XPA5,UPA2. Pio VSX33 & VSX32

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#326590 - 10/25/10 06:03 PM Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. [Re: 2x6spds]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4077
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Originally Posted By: 2x6spds
Speedbump, are you a mind-reader or something?

So, as I read this thread last evening while listening to a movie on my VP150 CC system, I thought to myself - "you know, this center channel speaker integrates so nicely with my 15" subwoofer that it sure sounds pretty much like a full range speaker."

On the other hand, if the frequency response curve is ruler flat for the VP150 and also for the VP180, why do they sound different at normal listening levels? Could it be that frequency response curves are not really determinative of a speaker's sound quality?

Oh the horror for the positivist-reductionists among us.




The on-axis frequency response will tell you some but the VP150 and VP180 are apples and oranges comparisons. Different design - bigger cabinet, crossover, driver complements, and one is a full range speaker that can be crossed over to a sub much lower than 80hz while the other cannot. With that many changes the tonal and overall sound/performance differences of the two speakers would be different for sure (more than what would be shown with the on-axis response) and each will perform much more differently off-axis. Axiom does not post its off-axis response curves for either model but for a center channel (any speaker for that matter) off-axis is super important on the overall perceived sound quality. Add in a spectral decay plot at the very least for each speaker and you will have a pretty good idea how a speaker will perform.
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#326599 - 10/25/10 10:41 PM Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. [Re: speedbump]
LucRaymond Offline
devotee

Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 308
Loc: montreal,qc,canada
Originally Posted By: speedbump
I have seen this opinion (VP180>>>VP150) expressed enough times that there must be truth to it, but I'm still a little confused why this is.

For the most part people respect the M22s, and I've heard it stated more than once, that M22s when properly integrated with a good sub come close to the sound of M80s (at least to a certain volume level, in reasonably-sized rooms).


I had M22TI + VP150 + sub +QS8 in my living room and no, I don't think they come close to the M80. In a very small room, maybe. My wife would cry if I swapped the M80 for the m22.. We dont listen at whispering level, so for us, the M80 is another league.
_________________________
M80,M60,M22,AX1.5,VP180,VP150,AX1.2,QS8
Emotiva XPA5,UPA2. Pio VSX33 & VSX32

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#326600 - 10/25/10 11:00 PM Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. [Re: LucRaymond]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10376
M22s are fully capable of sound levels at typical home listening distances which meet "reference" levels set for movies(too high for most listener's tastes). For music sources which have no established reference levels and can vary widely between different discs, similar levels to movie reference can be used if desired, subject to concern about hearing damage.
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