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#330338 - 12/04/10 02:14 PM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: 2x6spds]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
I have been gone for a while - great to see the same...um...discussion is raging. JohnK knows his stuff but I can't pass up the opportunity to compare the scientific fact of speaker sound, wire effect, amp power etc, with the recent discovery of a new form of life. No biologist worth his degree would ever let you debate that a life form could exist without phosphorus. I'm sure there is forum somewhere where the young student is ridiculed for even suggesting such a thing - no matter what he say in his microscope. yet, here were are:

"A new life form has been discovered. What makes is unique is that arsenic is one of its core elements. Six elements (carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, sulfur, and phosphorus) are normally essential in all living organisms. Recently a bacteria (strain GFAJ-1 of Halomonadaceae) was discovered at Mono Lake by Sandy Steinman Mono Lake and was found to grow using arsenic instead of phosphorus."

Maybe NASA is holding out on the whole "more power is better, and even better through crazy expensive cables publication"...maybe not.
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#330340 - 12/04/10 02:21 PM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: Zimm]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11162
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Organic cables based on the new life form?
_________________________
SuperGrand UltraDeluxe (Plus Extra More)

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#330341 - 12/04/10 02:32 PM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: CV]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
Hell yes. Apparently the arsenic really let's the mids of male vocals shine, but gets a tad tinny at 165 db.

and they emit a poisonous gas, but as long as DMB sounds his best, I'll wear a gas mask.
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#330342 - 12/04/10 02:41 PM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: Zimm]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
After one year of high school chemistry a person would guess that it might be possible to substitute arsenic for phosphorus.

After one year of high school physics a person would also know the properties of a passive conductor like a wire. Without supplying outside energy the only thing a wire can do is remove parts of the signal. There's no way at all for a wire to "improve" sound.

It's beyond high school physics, more like first year college, but the physics governing alternating current with frequencies below 20kHz is really well known. The only thing working on the signal is resistance, capacitance, and inductance. Keep those to relatively low levels per foot of cable, and you've got a conductor that will remove very little from the signal. Inflate those using unusual geometries, and you've got something that will act as a volume or tone control, diminishing parts of the signal.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#330343 - 12/04/10 02:57 PM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: Zimm]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4074
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Originally Posted By: Zimm
I have been gone for a while - great to see the same...um...discussion is raging. JohnK knows his stuff but I can't pass up the opportunity to compare the scientific fact of speaker sound, wire effect, amp power etc, with the recent discovery of a new form of life. No biologist worth his degree would ever let you debate that a life form could exist without phosphorus. I'm sure there is forum somewhere where the young student is ridiculed for even suggesting such a thing - no matter what he say in his microscope. yet, here were are:

"A new life form has been discovered. What makes is unique is that arsenic is one of its core elements. Six elements (carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, sulfur, and phosphorus) are normally essential in all living organisms. Recently a bacteria (strain GFAJ-1 of Halomonadaceae) was discovered at Mono Lake by Sandy Steinman Mono Lake and was found to grow using arsenic instead of phosphorus."

Maybe NASA is holding out on the whole "more power is better, and even better through crazy expensive cables publication"...maybe not.


Yes Zimm, the origins of life and the theory of evolution is a pretty complex topic and not even the greatest minds in the world have come up with a definitive answer presently and probably will not happen even in our lifetime. However, the element(s) copper (silver, gold etc) and its electrical properties which determine performance in speakers cables such as resistance, capacitance and inductance are basic concepts in the world of electrical engineering that are fully understood. And with the correct equipment easily measured.
_________________________
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#330346 - 12/04/10 03:51 PM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: ClubNeon]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
For the longest time I too thought of cables as conductors whose 3 electrical properties could affect the signal. I was always puzzled however how one set of cables in one system could audibly alter the signal but not in another. When that occurred I always attributed it to high inductance or RF. So I dismissed cable differences as being more psycho-acoustic than physical. Still it bothered me.

It was only after I read "Effects of Cable, Loudspeaker,and Amplifier Interactions* by Fred Davis in AudioEng.Soc.,Vol.39, No.6, 1991 June that things jelled for me. In it Davis explains how not only the electrical properties but the electrical interaction between the amp and speakers varied depending on the cables used. He concluded:

"If loudspeakers were only simple resistance, then large, low-resistance cables would not be a bad idea. However, loudspeaker systems exhibit a frequency-dependent complex impedance that can interact with the reactive components of amplifier and cable, The best response was obtained with low-inductance cables and an amplifier with low-inductance output and a high, frequency-independent damping factor.

These tests have shown that the best way to achieve adequately low resistance and inductance in a cable is by using many independently insulated wires per conductor than one large wire. "

I was then less dismissive of reports that cables could improve the quality of sound in one system and not in another.




_________________________
John

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#330349 - 12/04/10 04:20 PM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: jakeman]
Dduval Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 349
So Jakeman,

What cables did you then go with? just curious...

Dana
_________________________
M80's, QS8's, M22's, CHT SHO-10, Dual CHT SS-18.1's, Onkyo NR3008, Mitsubishi WD-73740

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#330350 - 12/04/10 04:24 PM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: BlueJays1]
Da_Gimp_Pimp Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 4013
Loc: Sitting down somewhere
[quote=Dr.House]

Yes Zimm, the origins of life and the theory fact of evolution is a pretty complex topicTrue that, Dr. grin


Edited by wheelz999 (12/04/10 04:26 PM)
_________________________
Does a dyslexic atheist not believe in dog?

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#330352 - 12/04/10 04:33 PM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: Da_Gimp_Pimp]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4074
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
I can't argue with you there wheelz. There is definitely overwhelming factual evidence supporting the theory, but still not a fully understood concept unlike the basic electrical properties of wire.
_________________________
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#330354 - 12/04/10 04:49 PM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: ClubNeon]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3884
Loc: Up yonder
Originally Posted By: ClubNeon
After one year of high school chemistry a person would guess that it might be possible to substitute arsenic for phosphorus.

After one year of high school physics a person would also know the properties of a passive conductor like a wire. Without supplying outside energy the only thing a wire can do is remove parts of the signal. There's no way at all for a wire to "improve" sound.

It's beyond high school physics, more like first year college, but the physics governing alternating current with frequencies below 20kHz is really well known. The only thing working on the signal is resistance, capacitance, and inductance. Keep those to relatively low levels per foot of cable, and you've got a conductor that will remove very little from the signal. Inflate those using unusual geometries, and you've got something that will act as a volume or tone control, diminishing parts of the signal.


OK Chris, your name is now Sheldon. (Big Bang Theory sitcom character)
_________________________


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