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#330357 - 12/04/10 05:02 PM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: michael_d]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5408
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
As long as we're talking about arsenic-based life :




Edited by bridgman (12/04/10 05:03 PM)

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#330359 - 12/04/10 05:22 PM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: Dduval]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Well Dana I continued to experiment and fill 3 boxes with expensive and el cheapos with no satisfaction either way.

Then came this article 6 years ago on these outstanding DIY twisted pairs and they've been in all my systems since. For the reasons why read down to Colin Millers essay. They are easy to make, inexpensive and as good as anything I have tried on different systems. Highly recommend them over the luxury brands and the zip cord.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_2/ultralink-CL414-cable-5-2003.html
_________________________
John

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#330361 - 12/04/10 06:14 PM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: jakeman]
Dduval Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 349
Originally Posted By: jakeman
Well Dana I continued to experiment and fill 3 boxes with expensive and el cheapos with no satisfaction either way.

Then came this article 6 years ago on these outstanding DIY twisted pairs and they've been in all my systems since. For the reasons why read down to Colin Millers essay. They are easy to make, inexpensive and as good as anything I have tried on different systems. Highly recommend them over the luxury brands and the zip cord.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_2/ultralink-CL414-cable-5-2003.html



Thanks for the link!

I currently use Axiom speaker cable, but that article is very interesting. I just may have to try these... smile

Dana
_________________________
M80's, QS8's, M22's, CHT SHO-10, Dual CHT SS-18.1's, Onkyo NR3008, Mitsubishi WD-73740

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#330363 - 12/04/10 06:23 PM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: Dduval]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
I built some of those after reading about them. They definitely changed the sound of my speakers...for the worse.

I now use Canare 4S11 with both pairs connected to the binding posts at each end for the main channels, and Belden 12 gauge everywhere else.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#330364 - 12/04/10 06:25 PM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: BlueJays1]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
Originally Posted By: Dr.House
I can't argue with you there wheelz. There is definitely overwhelming factual evidence supporting the theory, but still not a fully understood concept unlike the basic electrical properties of wire.

Evolution is a fact, it has been observed.

Natural selection is a theory to explain evolution.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#330366 - 12/04/10 06:37 PM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: ClubNeon]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4078
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Natural selection is just one theory.
_________________________
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#330380 - 12/04/10 08:34 PM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: BlueJays1]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8288
Loc: Tacoma
I want people to enjoy their music. If you *think* it sounds better and enjoy it, bully for you.

My problem with Mapleshade is them extolling the virtues of cable break-in and crystal treatment. I just haven't heard ANY compelling evidence that either of those things could possibly make a difference. Consequently, the credibility of the other properties of the product become suspect to me.

Chris, I don't understand why/how those Brian Florian cables the John linked could be "worse" than regular 12 gauge. Can you simple it down for me?
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#330386 - 12/04/10 10:01 PM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: Zimm]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10389
Charles, good to hear from you again! When you didn't reply to your birthday wishes, we thought that we might have lost you for good. Yeah, that arsenic is great stuff.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#330394 - 12/04/10 10:56 PM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: JohnK]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10389
These speaker cable articles have been well-known for as long as 19 years and there's certainly no startling info that would indicate that there's audible benefits to be found. I first read of the Davis work in the July, 1994 issue of Audio where he wrote a similar but not entirely identical article as his 1991 AES paper(I wasn't an AES member at that time). One new point was that he emphasized "There are real, measurable differences among speaker cables. However, for average systems and short cables, these differences are at the threshold of audibility"(p.42). Then in the July, 1995 Audio, Villchur(developer of the acoustic suspension AR speaker)wrote "Speaker Cables, Measurements vs Psycho-Acoustic Data" , testing the Davis "threshold of audibility" and found that applying data on just noticeable differences to those very high frequencies in the Davis measurements indicated that they were "almost always below the threshold of audibility"(P.37).

As to the DIY cable article, it's generally well-written, but there's nothing to show that the procedure there results in anything other that creating the equivalent of an 11ga cable. Inductance of a parallel set of conductors is directly proportionate to the distance between their centers and inversely proportionate to the radius of each conductor. So, the lowest inductance is a result of a very closely spaced pair of thick wires. You'd think, therefore, that no one would be silly enough to sell a cable composed of very thin, but widely separated conductors, but at least one supplier(which won't be identified, but whose initials are Mapleshade)offers a very thin "Double" pair which it recommends be separated a foot or two on the way to the speaker.

The way to get low resistance is an adequately thick conductor for the distance involved, with the two conductors very closely spaced to allow inductance to cause no audible effects. Standard lamp cord of an appropriate gauge(I use 16ga)does this job as well as anything.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#330395 - 12/04/10 10:58 PM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: ClubNeon]
CV Online   confused
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11202
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: ClubNeon
Evolution is a fact, it has been observed.


If facts are based on observations, we're screwed.

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