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#330245 - 12/03/10 12:53 PM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: Ken.C]
Nick B Offline
devotee

Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 490
Originally Posted By: kcarlile
I agree with Dr. House.

Some of the cables, like 2x6's Mapleshades, are thin enough that that would be causing some roll off on the highs, but I think most are just snake oil.


So, if someone has some bright speakers then these are the cables for them. An easier (and much cheaper!) fix would be to get an EQ and just trim the high frequencies slightly.

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#330246 - 12/03/10 12:54 PM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: Nick B]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17696
Loc: NoVA
Well.... and more accurate.
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#330250 - 12/03/10 01:46 PM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: Ken.C]
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Originally Posted By: kcarlile
I agree with Dr. House.

Some of the cables, like 2x6's Mapleshades, are thin enough that that would be causing some roll off on the highs, but I think most are just snake oil.


You'd think so, because for some, theory trumps experience. However, I can attest that the Mapleshades do not suffer from high end roll off. Au contrere ma amie, the highs are crystal-like in their purity. Bass is pure and strong. Mids? Love 'em.

Mapleshade Clearview Golden Double Helix, a wonderful mouthful, great cables, try 'em.
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#330302 - 12/03/10 10:21 PM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: Ken.C]
JohnK Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10307
A very thin speaker wire might indeed demonstrate an audible "difference", but if so, it'd be a bad one. As discussed some time ago, it wouldn't necessarily involve a roll-off in the highs. There are two effects when a very thin speaker wire is used; the more obvious is that its higher resistance leads to more of the power being used in the connecting wire rather than being delivered to the speaker. This is because two resistances in series(e.g., the connecting wire and the wire in the speaker driver)form a "voltage divider", and the voltage leaving the receiver is used up in proportion to the speaker wire resistance as compared to the driver wire resistance, i.e, if the speaker wire was so thin and long that its resistance(e.g., 4 ohms)actually equalled the impedance of the speaker at a particular frequency, half the voltage(and resulting power)would be lost on the way to the speaker. Usually it's much less than this, of course, and typical receivers have plenty of power to spare, so this is the less significant effect.

The other, more significant effect is that since the speaker impedance usually varies widely at different frequencies, while the resistance of the speaker wire stays the same, the proportion of the total voltage and power used by the speaker driver likewise varies with frequency. This results in the frequency response fluctuating up and down with impedance and less accurate sound.

This is all a result of the well-understood voltage divider effect and no amount of reliance on a simplistic "Just trust your ears" mantra can change the facts.
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#330303 - 12/03/10 10:32 PM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: JohnK]
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Well, there's theory, and there's practice. I picked up both my M3s and the Mapleshades after reading on-line reviews. Enjoy the Music, the very site which introduced me to Axiom speakers had a wonderful review of the Mapleshades.

They tried them, rather than theorized about them. I suppose theorizing about the cables is OK, but it would be better to apply theory to explain the experience rather than attempting to predict the experience on the basis of theory.

So, now that you have announced your theoretical conclusions, why don't you put them to the test?

Anyway, the effect is subtle and pleasant. Mapleshades, my personal favorite speaker cables.
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#330311 - 12/03/10 11:40 PM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: 2x6spds]
bdpf Offline
aficionado

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 769
Loc: Toronto, Canada
My personal opinion: if you believe the cables will help, you might ear a difference even if there is none. If you don't, you probably won't even if there is. The brain is a very tricky device...
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M80s/VP180/QS8s/EP600/AVR-890
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#330314 - 12/04/10 12:25 AM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: bdpf]
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
The brain is a very tricky device.

Ain't that just the bleeping truth.
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#330321 - 12/04/10 01:32 AM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: 2x6spds]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10394
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Unfortunately none of what JohnK has said is theory, it is solid physic/elctromecahnical laws, what we hear is in fact practice or theorectical as it can never really be proven nor disproven, since we all hear and like different things and it is a ll VERY subjective.

What I know is that if the wiring has an affect on the SQ when using the same amp/speakers/inputs etc. then you can be rest assured it is changing the sound from what it is supposed to be, whether that be bad or good is in the ear of the listener.
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#330322 - 12/04/10 01:34 AM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: 2x6spds]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16224
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
You're using the word theory when you should be using hypothesis, 2x6. John, coming from a scientific background, used it correctly. The two are not interchangeable. Please read at least the first sentence at the link below to better understand why I found it important to pick nits here.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-difference-between-a-theory-and-a-hypothesis.htm
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#330323 - 12/04/10 01:55 AM Re: Bryston vs Axiom Amps [Re: pmbuko]
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Well, there's hypothesis, and there's practice. I picked up both my M3s and the Mapleshades after reading on-line reviews. Enjoy the Music, the very site which introduced me to Axiom speakers had a wonderful review of the Mapleshades.

They tried them, rather than hypothesizing about them. I suppose hypothesizing about the cables is OK, but it would be better to hypothesize in order to explain the experience rather than attempting to predict the experience on the basis of an hypothesis.

So, now that you have announced your hypothesis, why don't you test it?

Anyway, the effect is subtle and pleasant. Mapleshades, my personal favorite speaker cables.
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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