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#348158 - 05/14/11 08:17 PM Re: EP500 will not power up [Re: CatBrat]
stevej Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/08/09
Posts: 76
I don't think I will try that. I would have to undo the whole system down there. When I say they sound horrible it is not because of the room. They start distorting really bad at moderately high sound with the Pioneer. So I assume it would be the receiver? I can really crank them up with the Onkyo with no distortion. So I guess maybe the Pioneer starts clipping.

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#348177 - 05/14/11 09:32 PM Re: EP500 will not power up [Re: stevej]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Steve, yes it would appear that the Pioneer has developed a defect. While there would be several reasons to prefer the Onkyo in my view, the maximum power capacity is just slightly higher and certainly wouldn't explain the difference which you've described if the Pioneer was in good operating condition.
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#348178 - 05/14/11 10:00 PM Re: EP500 will not power up [Re: JohnK]
stevej Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/08/09
Posts: 76
Yes that is what I am thinking. The Pioneer is suppose to be 100w and the Onkyo 140. But I can live with it for now. I don't need to listen at that high of volumn in my living room. I should have explained the horrible sound in the earlier post as distortion instead of anything that would have to do with different room accoustics. But I tell you they really do put out a lot of sound with the Onkyo for such a small speaker. I wanted to listen to them with my sub but as you can see in this thread it is not working. Anxious to see how they compare in sound with the M80s when I get the sub working.

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#348180 - 05/14/11 10:11 PM Re: EP500 will not power up [Re: stevej]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Those 100 and 140 watt ratings have to be accurate under FTC amplifier power regulations, but the difference between 100 watts and 140 watts is only about 1.46dB in maximum sound level(e.g., being able to play a brief split-second peak at 105dB or 106.46dB). So again, that isn't the problem.
_________________________
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#348182 - 05/14/11 10:24 PM Re: EP500 will not power up [Re: JohnK]
stevej Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/08/09
Posts: 76
Yes I agree. The difference between the two should not make that much difference. So obviously the Pioneer has a problem.

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#348183 - 05/14/11 10:36 PM Re: EP500 will not power up [Re: stevej]
Ichigo_Kurosaki Offline
devotee

Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 463
Loc: Japan
So that would mean that my Denon also have a problem? On my case there is no distortion at all on the sound but there is a huge difference on bass and soundstage between the two amps. Also my vintage amp is only 30 watt.
_________________________
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.

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#348184 - 05/14/11 10:43 PM Re: EP500 will not power up [Re: Ichigo_Kurosaki]
stevej Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/08/09
Posts: 76
What do they sound like with your Denon?

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#348185 - 05/14/11 11:00 PM Re: EP500 will not power up [Re: stevej]
Ichigo_Kurosaki Offline
devotee

Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 463
Loc: Japan
Will post the answer on another post.
_________________________
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.

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#348189 - 05/14/11 11:11 PM Re: EP500 will not power up [Re: Ichigo_Kurosaki]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Ichigo, of course it's not possible to make a precise analysis at long range, but some comments are appropriate. First, the amplification process has no ability to affect "soundstage" as long as the channels are separated by an amount which any modern amplifier far exceeds. Secondly, if the amplifier has flat response down to 20Hz, which any receiver of the quality which we'd seriously consider does easily, it reproduces bass well. Bass is no different in this respect from any other frequency range: at a given sound level 40Hz requires the same amount of power as does 400Hz or 4000Hz. If the sound level isn't precisely identical when comparing two units however(proper blind tests require matching to within 0.1dB), then items such as sound-stage and bass will sound different, not because of some mysterious quality superiority, but simply because one is being played a little louder. Casual listening not under controlled blind conditions can easily mislead us and can't be relied upon to make judgments. Louder usually sounds better.

Since it summarizes the point well, I'll again cite the editor of the Audio Critic in "Electronic Signal Paths Do Not Have a Personality!" for a brief explanation.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#348190 - 05/14/11 11:19 PM Re: EP500 will not power up [Re: JohnK]
Ichigo_Kurosaki Offline
devotee

Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 463
Loc: Japan
Originally Posted By: JohnK
Ichigo, of course it's not possible to make a precise analysis at long range, but some comments are appropriate. First, the amplification process has no ability to affect "soundstage" as long as the channels are separated by an amount which any modern amplifier far exceeds. Secondly, if the amplifier has flat response down to 20Hz, which any receiver of the quality which we'd seriously consider does easily, it reproduces bass well. Bass is no different in this respect from any other frequency range: at a given sound level 40Hz requires the same amount of power as does 400Hz or 4000Hz. If the sound level isn't precisely identical when comparing two units however(proper blind tests require matching to within 0.1dB), then items such as sound-stage and bass will sound different, not because of some mysterious quality superiority, but simply because one is being played a little louder. Casual listening not under controlled blind conditions can easily mislead us and can't be relied upon to make judgments. Louder usually sounds better.

Since it summarizes the point well, I'll again cite the editor of the Audio Critic in "Electronic Signal Paths Do Not Have a Personality!" for a brief explanation.


Well I guess that my Denon might be defective then because even on low volumes the ammount of air coming out the M22's are different between them. The difference is absurd. As some of you might recall right after hooking up the speakers I made a post where the lack of bass was cited. Well, but what really matters now is that I am definitely loving my speakers now. While before I could say I liked them. smile Thanks for the clarification!
_________________________
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.

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