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#35814 - 03/06/04 05:19 AM Re: Wow... Receivers really do sound different!
spiffnme Offline
axiomite

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 5214
Loc: Los Angeles
Peter...you're a nut.
_________________________
"A nation cannot prosper long, when it favors only the prosperous." -President Barack Obama

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#35815 - 03/06/04 06:44 AM Re: Wow... Receivers really do sound different!
littleb Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 1235
Loc: Moorhead, Minnesota/US
Is the riot over, yet?

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#35816 - 03/06/04 07:15 AM Re: Wow... Receivers really do sound different!
rcvecc Offline
aficionado

Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 608
Loc: east haven ct
maybe someone can post a poll to find out how many people think receivers do or do not sound different....i would set it up,but i dont know how...ron

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#35817 - 03/06/04 10:09 AM Re: Wow... Receivers really do sound different!
LazyJ Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 23
I think that is the gist of the argument rcvecc. People "think" receivers sound different without any actual proof. They listened to the old receiver last night, bought the new one today, plug it all up, and wow...it sounds "better". No adjusting them the same, no hooking both up to listen back and forth, etc. Besides the fact if you just spent big bucks on a receiver, you need to justify its purchase (you are biased).

As I mentioned above, people think those $500/ft speaker cables sound better, but actual tests show that you cant tell the difference.

Note: Im just a noob relating facts, not trying to take a side


Edited by LazyJ (03/06/04 10:10 AM)

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#35818 - 03/06/04 12:48 PM Re: Wow... Receivers really do sound different!
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17768
Loc: NoVA
Oh, but you just did.

Wait for it....

Here it comes....

FLAME WAR!
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#35819 - 03/06/04 12:56 PM Re: Wow... Receivers really do sound different!
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17768
Loc: NoVA
OK, here's the poll.



There, how's that? I think it sums up the arguments here nicely.
Do receivers sound different
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 05/24/06 06:11 PM
View the results of this poll.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#35820 - 03/06/04 01:56 PM Re: Wow... Receivers really do sound different!
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8286
Loc: Tacoma
Thanks, Ken. My only regret is that I cannot vote more than once for the "rat's ass" option. I was SO hoping that it would be included.

That is actually a standard response in our house -
Q. How do you feel about ?
A. Well, if you just sneak the phrase "rat's ass" in there somewhere, I think you'd just about have it.


_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#35821 - 03/06/04 02:33 PM Re: Wow... Receivers really do sound different!
Chadmat Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 13
Hi all,

Not trying to be a tireless rebutter, but just returned home and thought this an interesting thread. Anyhow, I think intuitively that electronics, cables, etc, are the combination of numerous parts that combine to form an end product. In the culinary arts, different ingredients yield quite different food items.

The application of casual empiricism would lead me to believe the same about receivers and audio components. I don't think that different models that have heterogeneous components will sound homogenous in their final state. Speakers with the same drivers can sound very different if the crossover is tweaked slightly or if the box volume and dimensions are adjusted. In the same way I would think that individual parts of receivers can affect the unit's sonic presentation significantly. Do power supplies, DSP processing chips, and resistors make a difference? Does the quality of the receiver's pre-amplifier section make a difference? How about the internal toplogy? I have seen Yamaha advertise their TOPART design philosophy and have wondered if if influences sound (my first receiver was a Yammy that I was happy with).

Anyhow, I may be respectfully disagreeing with the majority here, but I do think that receivers and components introduce their own unioque sonic character in the audio stream. From cables to the speakers, I feel the audio signal is incluenced at each level.

I personally do not buy exotic cables or wires, and only stumbled on some Kimber 8PR cable on the cheap as someone I know was practically giving it away. More to the point however, I recently purchased a NAD receiver that I side-by-side compared with my older HK and a Denon 3802. I am not a scientist or audio guru, but using flat settings, banana plugs for hot swaps, and my trusty rat shack digital SPL meter, the same speakers in the same spot, and the same source material, I thought I heard distinct sonic characters of each receiver. I would have been happy with each and the differences weren't always nicght and day, but in the end my wife and I felt to our ears there was a clear winner.

Anyhow, I have always appreciated the advice and information on these boards and have an almost complete Axiom system because of it. I do however allow for the possibility of distinct differences in audio equipment. Regards,

Chad

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#35822 - 03/06/04 02:42 PM Re: Wow... Receivers really do sound different!
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17768
Loc: NoVA
Thank you for the polite, well fleshed-out response. It's nice to see someone injecting civility into this. (spoken as one who is often not very civil.)

Oh yeah, and welcome! Not all of our threads are so contentious. Really.


Edited by kcarlile (03/06/04 02:43 PM)
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#35823 - 03/06/04 10:13 PM Re: Wow... Receivers really do sound different!
fhw Offline
devotee

Registered: 11/22/01
Posts: 345
Loc: London, ON
Excellent argument. I had a similar experience when I went shopping for a new receiver two years ago. I compared a Denon 2802 to an Arcam AVR100. Granted, the audition wasn't done with an SPL meter, but volumes were adjusted up and down for comparisons. The Arcam won the audition, and my business, in a no-contest. I had read a single review in Home Theater magazine on the Arcam, and multiple reviews on the Denon. I don't think my expectation was great enough going into the audition to explain the differences I heard.

I believe there are significant differences between electronic components that are compatible with a scientific viewpoint. Noise floor/background hiss is a perfect example, as is attack and decay. Neither would show up on a frequency response graph (which is done with test tones), but both have easily appreciated audible differences.



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