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#3619 - 06/14/02 12:04 PM VP150/M60s, the 'buzz noise' and where we're at
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4787
Loc: western canada
Well i thought i'd start up a new thread on the 'buzz' issue. That other one was getting cluttered and completely got away from the topic of the original post.

I sat down with the M60s again myself this morning with a clear head to listen one more time, then i called customer service. I talked with Joe today and tried to give him a listen over the phone.
Joe suggested swapping the left and right speakers to help diagnose whether the buzz sound was an issue with the woofers or the source material (a great and simple idea).
Unfortunately the buzz still remained while trying all 3 songs with the speakers switched. I isolated the buzz to 2 of the 6 inch woofers (bottom of one speaker and middle of the 2nd speaker).
So Joe is sending me out 2 replacement woofers today and we'll see what happens.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#3620 - 06/14/02 06:12 PM Re: VP150/M60s, the 'buzz noise' and where we're at
Randyman Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/29/02
Posts: 184
Loc: Honolulu, Hawaii
Please keep us posted as to the results. I was going to suggest a way for you to try to "isolate" each individual driver to help determine which was responsible for the buzzing sound - but it seems that you have already managed to do that.

Good luck!

Randyman

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#3621 - 06/15/02 03:26 PM Re: VP150/M60s, the 'buzz noise' and where we're at
jsbattig Offline
newbie

Registered: 06/14/02
Posts: 3
Loc: MN
I posted about a wierd noise I have with an EP175 recently. I guess actually I could classify the type of noise reproduced as a buzzer probably. Do you have this noise with low volume, or only when you start increasing the volume?. For me it sounded as an air flow generated noise, as compressed air escaping quickly producing this noise.
Axiom said they are going to send me a new sub, but I have my doubts if this is a failure or a feature...

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#3622 - 06/15/02 03:46 PM Re: VP150/M60s, the 'buzz noise' and where we're at
jkohn Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 96
Well, after re-checking connections and woofer screws the other night, I rented Mothman Prophecies again and checked the scene with the phone ring. The distortion is still there. But I also played "musical centers" and hooked the center pre-out up to my left and right mains, and still heard the distortion. This tells me that unless I'm unlucky enough to have a problem with the same frequency in all 3 speakers, it's probably source related.

Going back to the 5th Element disc, I checked the "Opera" scene. Her singing is clean, but when the music kicks in and Leloo is fighting, I hear what sounds like possible distortion. But it's hard to tell since there's a lot going on sonically by that point and it could just be the soundtrack. I didn't have a chance to swap speakers for this scene, maybe tomorrow.

I've got the Diana Krall disc on order, so I'll check that when it gets here. I'm still a bit nervous about 2 screws being loose on that right tweeter, though. I guess for now I'll just keep a close eye on it.

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#3623 - 06/15/02 05:28 PM Re: VP150/M60s, the 'buzz noise' and where we're
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4787
Loc: western canada
Chances are if you get the same sound with the new driver it may not be the speaker. If you are really unsure about this then return the speaker to Axiom so they can test it themselves. If the speaker proves faulty, i'm almost positive they will send you out a brand new unit.
Axiom customer service and their policies with customers problems have been absolutely stellar so far in my experience. I personally believe that Axiom also produces some of the highest quality speakers for their price range. A good friend of mine who does electronics and speaker repairs for a living (and who has seen those crazy $100, 000 speaker systems) commented the other day on the nice Vifa tweeters in the M22s. If anyone can corroborate that observation i would really like to know.
All these people on the forums would not be here if Axiom was not a quality company.

Just offhand though, your problem does not sound like my own. The buzz in my speaker is definitely mechanical in nature directly related to 2 of the 6 inch woofers. It is best described as the woofer vibrating against something right behind it in the driver basket which occurs at a certain range of low frequency sounds. The 2 other 6 inch woofers on my M60s do NOT make this sound hence i can only assume i have 2 defective drivers.
Axiom is sending me replacements. No other M60 owners have yet found this problem although something similar was mentioned about center channels which is what precipitated this thread.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#3624 - 06/15/02 05:32 PM Re: VP150/M60s, the 'buzz noise' and where we're
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4787
Loc: western canada
That's an interesting experiment with the fronts and the center pre-out connection.
As you said, the distortion was still there so perhaps it is a source problem then.

Was the sound originating with any type of frequency or just sounds in a certain range?

The Diana Krall music was helpful for determining the frequency range causing any problems because of her low and high voice accompanied by the cello notes and piano notes. Holly Cole Trio has very similar music.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#3625 - 06/16/02 11:57 PM Re: VP150/M60s, the 'buzz noise' and where we're
jkohn Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 96
I agree the distortion on the phone ring in Mothman Prophecies was almost certainly source-related since it happened with all 3 speakers. At this point I'm thinking the problem may just be a combination of my imagination and a very revealing speaker, who knows. I seem to be very sensitive to things like distortion/artifacts/etc, for both audio and picture quality. My wife thinks I'm crazy though...

I will certainly be listening for any problems in the future, and I'll check the Diana Krall disc when I get it. I hope your driver replacements solve your problem.

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#3626 - 06/17/02 11:40 PM Re: VP150/M60s, the 'buzz noise' and where we're
ChrisR Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 61
Loc: PA
I only heard the buzzing from one woofer (the right one) on the VP150, and only while listening to Diana Krall's DVD. It was just her vocals and the bass: the vocals were clear and nice, while the bass alone caused the buzz from the woofer. Since then, I have played that track a few other times and have not heard it.

Keepin' my fingers crossed...
_________________________
M60s, VP150, QS8 x4 ACI Titan II sub Anthem AVM20 pre/pro Anthem PVA7 amp Panasonic DVD-RP91

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#3627 - 06/18/02 10:41 AM Re: VP150/M60s, the 'buzz noise' and where we're
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4787
Loc: western canada
Just out of curiousity, what kind of volume levels are you using?
The buzz in my 2 (out of 4) woofers never appeared until i had the volume at the 'party' level. A lower, typical easy listening volume produced no buzz but again as i mentioned earlier, the higher volumes i was using should still be well within the capability range of both the speaker and the receiver.
Hopefully the 2 woofer replacements will arrive today.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#3628 - 06/19/02 05:46 PM Re: VP150/M60s, the 'buzz noise' and where we're
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4787
Loc: western canada
Well, here we are on day 5 and the replacement drivers have yet to arrive.
I'm starting to get quite annoyed with CanPost and other couriers most especially UPS (note that is not USPS).

Lately i've received items at very odd intervals.
Two parcels from the same source in Ontario and one takes 3 days to arrive and the other takes 9!!

UPS parcel from B.C. took nearly 14 days to get here and when it did, the package was mostly wrecked and they left it outside my door without even ringing the bell. This is not the first time that UPS has delivered items in such a fashion. Twice before, same situation although the delivery time was a bit quicker, 4 days and 5 days from B.C. respectively. Thanks for leaving the computer monitor out in the rain. It really enjoyed the shower you jerks.

Axiom speakers ordered just over 2 weeks ago now had arrived over 2 separate days via Fedex with the first set arriving 5 days after ordering.The second half of the m60s came on the next and 6th day.

Call me crazy but isn't Fedex supposed to be 3-5 days max. by ground?
At least they make you sign for the parcels.

I hate waiting.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#3629 - 06/20/02 07:09 PM reVP150/M60s, the 'buzz noise' and where we're at
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4787
Loc: western canada
The drivers are in. Just arrived late this afternoon. Unfortunately i have an early appointment tomorrow and i'm on the road tonight so i can't put in the new woofers until friday or saturday.
Amie and Joe came through with the goods. Now i've got high hopes the speakers will finally make that cello chord thump without the 'buzz'.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#3630 - 06/21/02 11:41 PM Re M60s, the 'buzz noise' [chesseroo FINAL REPORT]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4787
Loc: western canada
And here we have it, the final verdict is in.

{drum roll}

The original drivers were faulty!

Replaced them with the 2 new 6 inch woofers that Joe passed along and voila, smooth sweet tunes of a cello WITHOUT a buzz in the bunch!!
Funny thing then happened when i started listening a bit more closely to be sure the abnormalities had disappeared. I noticed the buzz had gone from the woofers but now i was hearing a buzzy distortion on the first note of the song in the tweeter on the left speaker. After replaying the first notes several times over and starting to look a bit distressed again, my fiance pointed out that the new 'buzz' i was hearing was actually a MISPLAYED twang coming from the cello!!!

Well paint my butt blue and call me smurf-like, i was dumbfounded.
The clarity of the damn speaker and the quality of the recording was actually throwing me off.
So that was the end of decision day. I'm keeping the M60s for good, sending back the M22s (no bookshelfs for me but nice little sounding buggers) AND i hopped onto my Axiom shopping cart to finish my purchasing.
Today i've ordered a VP150 and QS8s (boston cherry, factory outlet) and a pristine Ep350 (boston cherry) to match the set!
Amie don't let me down. I want those bad boys by the end of next week!! Heck, i simply gotta get that dvd player sooner than later now don't i?
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#3631 - 06/22/02 07:21 AM Re: Re M60s, the 'buzz noise' [chesseroo FINAL REPORT]
lando622 Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 82
Loc: Florida, USA
chesseroo,

Glad to hear that your problem is solved. That's a sweet sounding set-up you've ordered... best of luck with that. I'll bet that not much else is going to get done this weekend with all the listening/viewing you "need" to do!

lando
_________________________
lando

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#3632 - 06/22/02 09:48 AM Re: Re M60s, the 'buzz noise' [chesseroo FINAL REP
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4787
Loc: western canada
I will be sure to start up a post report once the rest of the setup gets here.
I'm anxious to pick up that dvd player so i can really start groovin.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#3633 - 06/22/02 11:35 AM Re: Re M60s, the 'buzz noise' [chesseroo FINAL REP
b_man Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/25/02
Posts: 64
Loc: Illinois, USA
Can't wait to read that report! Sounds like a lot of fun.

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#3634 - 06/24/02 05:27 PM Re: Re M60s, the 'buzz noise' [chesseroo FINAL REPORT]
jkohn Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 96
Glad to hear the replacement drivers solved your problems.

I've decided that my VP150 problems were mostly source related, not a defective speaker. It's amazing how poor the sound quality is on some TV programming and even the occasional DVD.

The reason I say 'mostly' source-related is because I've also come the conclusion that the VP150 is bit of a disappointment relative to the other speakers I purchased. Don't get me wrong, the VP150 is a nice center, I just don't think it's in the same league as the M60ti's, especially with regard to midrange performance, which is one place where the M60ti's really shine while the VP150 comes up a little short. For the most part dialog sounds OK, but sometimes it just sounds a bit strained, for example when somebody is yelling (which seems to be pretty frequently in the movies I watch )

Given how important dialog performance is for the center channel, it's too bad that Axiom didn't design their top-line center using a 3-way design. I'll keep the VP150 since I definitely want to keep the other speakers, but if Axiom were to come out with a better center channel speaker in the future I'd definitely consider upgrading.

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#3635 - 06/24/02 10:16 PM Re: Re M60s, the 'buzz noise' [chesseroo FINAL REP
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4787
Loc: western canada
That's an interesting line of thinking on the VP150. I ordered the rest of my system and it should arrive later this week. Besdies the M60s, we have ordered the vp150, qs8s and the ep350.
I also wanted to stick with the same speaker brand all around and of course i've been very satisfied with the axiom service and selection to date. I'm still a bit bummed by the bright sound of the M60s but we know that we can compensate a bit by buying a cd player that has the right softer sound. At the present time i'm reviewing both a panasonic and hitachi dvd player (this year's models). I will post what i hear about these 2 soon.

Once the system is setup i will be sure to post my thoughts on the rest of the speakers as well, including the vp150.

Thanks for your input on the buzz noise. Everyone's opinions and help info really mean alot when you are looking at a 3000 dollar plus purchase.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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