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#362443 - 01/02/12 09:19 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: CatBrat]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10886
Loc: Central NH
Stop feeding the effin' troll, guys.....
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#362444 - 01/02/12 09:23 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: CatBrat]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5851
Loc: Some random location
I found it interesting today while visiting a Best Buy store. I used to want one of those really big stereo thini-ma-bobs, what every you call them. Kind of an overgrown boom box, with seperate bass speaker. Today I listened to the largest one that they had. It had lots of bass, for what it was, but that's about all it had. There was just enough midrange and trebble thrown in there that you could call it that, but I mean this thing sucked big time. So much for wanting some of that cheaper stuff that's on the market now.

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#362445 - 01/02/12 09:35 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: MarkSJohnson]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 768
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Stop feeding the effin' troll, guys.....


You're right, its hopeless.

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#362454 - 01/02/12 10:34 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: jakewash]
JBall Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 141
Originally Posted By: jakewash
I don't believe any of us on this forum believe our Axioms are the end all be all to speakers. I have heard some magnificient Sonus Faber's at $15000 but I really couldn't couldn't justify paying that extra $13000 for them over my M80s nor the extra $3000 for a set of Paradigm S8's I had a chance to buy for a pretty good deal. We do feel our speakers are one of the best bang for the buck speakers out there.

Gene has been pretty good to not mention any names in these articles however it isn't hard to find those same pics he shows from previous articles/reviews and put 2 + 2 together. IMO it would have been better for him to build his own XO's to prove his points, they are after all cheap and easy to make..


You may be right that fellow Axiom owners here are sensible enough to not think that there aren't better speakers to be had. But, about a year ago a fellow Axiom employee came on this forum declaring the M80s are "similarly good" to Revel Salon2s or any other speaker at any price. Axiom also published an article stating that beyond about $1500-2k/pair you're paying for cosmetic upgrades b/c a better sounding speaker can't be made. These kind of statements is what gets a rise out of folks. Perhaps they do it for the attention. Who knows.

Rest assured I still enjoy my Axioms but I recognize that if I had more budget, I could do better. The same goes with cars, houses, and pretty much most material items in life.

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#362457 - 01/02/12 11:04 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: JBall]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
Originally Posted By: JBall
Axiom also published an article stating that beyond about $1500-2k/pair you're paying for cosmetic upgrades b/c a better sounding speaker can't be made.


I think that for 1,500-5,000$ a pair you are mainly paying for cosmetic items... However, when you go up to the 20k$+ range, there is an audible difference to me. Specifically with Wilson's (I am a fan of wilson's. However, i don't know if i will ever own a pair). Wilson uses corian as a building material in the construction of their cabinets. From doing some reading, Corian is suppose to be one of the best materials available to build speaker cabinets out of. It is also suppose to be very expensive to work with, between the molding, and the machining.

On a side note, i have a pair of B&W CM1's with the small CM center in my bedroom, which are similar to the M2's as well as the vp100.. i paid about 3X as much for the B&W's as the price of the M2's.. And i will admit i bought them because i liked the way they look.. I have M60ti's in the living room, and there is not a drastic difference between the two sets of speakers. While the M60's will obviously play deeper, overall i think both brands sound similar.

But that is just me...

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#362458 - 01/02/12 11:23 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: dakkon]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5851
Loc: Some random location
It's hard to see how corian, or any other material, would make them sound better. So far, everything I've heard is that pressed wood adds the least coloration, or resonance, to the sound.

I did read up on corian some. I see what your point is now. I just wonder if the extra trouble to use corian would make an audible difference.


Edited by CatBrat (01/02/12 11:37 PM)

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#362459 - 01/02/12 11:40 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: dakkon]
CV Online   confused
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11202
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
I still think I'll end up with a secondary music system, so I'll want to try another brand, but it will have to be in the same price range as Axiom. I wish I could step up to some Revels or other highly-regarded speakers (which I haven't heard, by the way, so saying "step up" is presumptuous of me at this point), but I just don't foresee having that budget. Axiom has been good to me, and I will continue to upgrade my home theater setup with their speakers. Do I think they offer phenomenal sound right now? Yes. Do I think there's room for improvement? Yes, I do, but I also know I haven't even come close to getting the most out of them with my currently limited placement options and my amplifier situation. After I have more room to work with and the amount of power I used to have (or more), I want to dig in and see what I can accomplish with Room EQ Wizard and acoustical treatments. I already think my system sounds great, but I don't think I've really gotten everything I can out of my Axioms.

As a consumer, I want the best value I can get. I hope any company I buy from can see it from that perspective, too. Axiom strikes a great balance, but if increased parts quality IS something they find adds value upon further research, I do hope they'll incorporate it into perhaps a new product line like they'd been considering. One idea to keep costs lower on the new line is to only have a couple of finish options with enclosures made in China? I know that's probably not cool to suggest. I'm still curious what Axiom could do with enclosures made of something other than MDF. There's solid reasoning behind the use of MDF, but I'm still curious.

In any case, like I said, I love the way my Axioms sound, and I just don't see how you could argue their designs are bad with the experience I'm getting from them. That being said, I hope pride or fear never keeps Axiom from pushing ahead and offering more to their customers. There's greatness to be achieved here.

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#362461 - 01/03/12 12:24 AM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: CV]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 768
Loc: Toronto
With the mergers and acquisitions that have taken place in the CE business in recent years along with China being the focal point and pretty much dominating the business, the waters have been quite muddied as to what one might call "high-end" and what isn't. I am sure many remember the Lexicon/Oppo fiasco of a couple of years ago. Wilson speakers are excellent, but, their premium models costing $20K and up are gigantic so size is part of that expense and many of us could not fit these in to our set-up anyway. As well, I don't think there is an electronic product out there, regardless of price, that doesn't have parts in it that are almost primarily manufactured in the Far East. Take in to account many companies that have moved their production there as well. Among several others, a case in point is the prestigious speaker manufacturer B&W already mentioned in this discussion. Although designed in the U.K., other than the top of the line 800 series, all their other models are built from the ground up in China. Some are still adamant about the idea of anything being built there in that they feel it is an inferior product. If that is the case(which I don't personally believe), B&W sure hasn't reflected this in their prices, so how does one really know?

The way I look at it and regardless of any naysayers, Axiom has been around for over thirty years so when it comes to their place in the speaker market and how they compare to the competition, they must be doing something right.

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#362462 - 01/03/12 12:26 AM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: casey01]
CV Online   confused
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11202
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Just to clarify, I have no problem with the quality of Chinese-made products. I simply know a lot of people would prefer to not have it outsourced like that.

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#362464 - 01/03/12 12:58 AM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: CV]
INANE Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 1665
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
Everyone has their own perceptions and standards. I happen to love my M3's but I have a lot of friends who think I'm crazy for spending as much money as I did on my Axioms.
_________________________
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HT v2.0 !
HT v1.0

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