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#369762 - 03/14/12 10:40 PM Re: Possible upgrade m22 to v60 [Re: sheburon]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7395
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
LOL!!
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#369766 - 03/14/12 11:29 PM Re: Possible upgrade m22 to v60 [Re: sheburon]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17741
Loc: NoVA
Mark's room isn't a square, it's a hypercube.
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#369771 - 03/14/12 11:55 PM Re: Possible upgrade m22 to v60 [Re: Ken.C]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16259
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
No. It's timecube.
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#369779 - 03/15/12 05:02 AM Re: Possible upgrade m22 to v60 [Re: sheburon]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10832
Loc: Central NH
Yeah. Wrong thread. Just apply whatever I posted after whatever YOU posted about Carver, Rick. I think. grin
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#369786 - 03/15/12 08:42 AM Re: Possible upgrade m22 to v60 [Re: sheburon]
sheburon Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 3
Thanks all.

I did not know that volume and SPL were inseparable. You're probably right then, I may just be setting my sub a bit too high. It doesn't help that on many recordings the bass is at absurdly high levels. I can re-evaluate the crossover then, too.

It's not that the soundstage is bad with the M22s, I was just wondering if moving to a more expensive model would increase it, that's all. I figured that extra money had to go to something smile I was just curious if it was more than bass extension.

Thanks again.

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#369812 - 03/15/12 02:07 PM Re: Possible upgrade m22 to v60 [Re: FireGuy]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3186
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi FireGuy,

The 80-Hz suggestion for a crossover frequency for the M22s to the subwoofer is a guideline; however, the rationale for that frequency is to avoid a "hole" (suck-out) in the bass response as it transitions from the M22 to the subwoofer. If you look carefully at the NRC measurements of the M22's bass output in the anechoic chamber here. . .
http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/axiom_m22ti_se/

... you'll note that the bass output remains quite linear to 80 Hz then drops dramatically so it's more than 12 dB down at 60 Hz (that means the bass output is about "half as loud" as the output at 80 Hz). By using the 80-Hz setting for the M22s, you can be reasonably certain that your subwoofer's response will be reasonably linear to 80 Hz and higher, hence the slope of the subwoofer's bass output will coincide nicely with the M22's response at 80 Hz.

That's the theory. Of course, if you figure in some room gain and allow for subwoofer placement and standing waves, you may find using a lower or higher crossover frequency for the M22s will work better in your situation.

Regards,
Alan
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#376509 - 05/17/12 06:43 PM Re: Possible upgrade m22 to v60 [Re: sheburon]
wilwom Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 174
Loc: Denton, TX
Raising the crossover to 80Hz will take stress off the M22s and thus should improve their soundstage.

Originally Posted By: sheburon
Thanks all.

It's not that the soundstage is bad with the M22s, I was just wondering if moving to a more expensive model would increase it, that's all. I figured that extra money had to go to something smile I was just curious if it was more than bass extension.

Thanks again.

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#376521 - 05/17/12 09:45 PM Re: Possible upgrade m22 to v60 [Re: sheburon]
JLJ Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 04/23/12
Posts: 21
I went from M22's to M60's for music listening and what a difference! 22's for movies where great but wait until the 60's and you know you made the right choice.

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#383568 - 10/02/12 09:31 AM Re: Possible upgrade m22 to v60 [Re: Murph]
axiom_man Offline
devotee

Registered: 05/09/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Bridgewater, Nova Scotia, Cana...
Originally Posted By: Murph
Hey Brian, I believe they were talking about a strictly stereo plus sub environment. I don't see where anyone said that adding a center would or would not change things for him. That would be a whole other discussion. A good discussion, but different.

I would also be curious to know what sub you are using and how hot it is running. My EP500 does blend nicely with my M60s but from the specs and what I have heard of M22s, I see no reason why it would not blend equally as well with those.

Now in contrast, I tried using an old Sony HTIB subwoofer that I had left over with a second set of M60s in another room. Even though it was less powerful, by the time you turned it up loud enough to make a difference in this large room with M60s, it sounded way too boomy. Although it could play loud enough for this very large space, it was far from musically satisfying and I removed it altogether.

I could see how a similar scenario might lead you to believe that there is a "gap" between the two. It may not be a gap. It may just be that you need to calibrate your sub to match or that it plays a bit more 'boomy' than the detailed M22s.


Geez, what version of the M60's do you have ?

I may have to take a trip over to the Island with my M22 and we can do some comparison's. wink
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#383570 - 10/02/12 09:59 AM Re: Possible upgrade m22 to v60 [Re: sheburon]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6738
Loc: PEI, Canada
Not sure I understand why you mentioned the "Geez." My comments were not really targeting the M60s. I was inferring that the smaller Sony sub could not play 'cleanly' at levels that matched the M60s for the room size. Not if you needed any significant volume anyway. It's just a 10" HTIB sub. It sounded decent in my old cottage when I sat 6' from it but it wasn't made for the space I tried it in above.

To answer though, I think they are ver. 2.
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