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#376686 - 05/20/12 05:46 PM Re: Exciting News From Axiom! [Re: Amie]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1271
Loc: Quebec, Canada
that looks excellent. :-)
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#376688 - 05/20/12 07:01 PM Re: Exciting News From Axiom! [Re: Amie]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
Here is Brystons graphs for their speakers.


The Model T's appear to have more low end responce, but then again they are using 3 8" woofers. Also, i think James said the price would be around 10k$ a pair, which i think is a fair price for the amount of product that you would get.. They are also active speakers, but require 3 channels of amplification per speaker, so they also have 3 channels of cross over as well.. So, for 2 channels of amplification, and 1/5 the cost i think the LFR's are a very good deal, and that is without even taking into consideration the rear speakers.. for 6kish$, you could have a pair of LFR's as well as a pair of EP-600's...



Thanks for the Graph Ian... Can anyone explain what if any affect the rear speakers have on the graph? more specifically, addressing BlueJays1's post about the omni directional and the spl graph.

Thanks.

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#376706 - 05/20/12 09:33 PM Re: Exciting News From Axiom! [Re: Ian]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Ian, looks good. What were the measurement conditions? E.g., all anechoic; any correction for lowest bass inaccuracy in anechoic chamber; resolution(1/20th octave smoothing, etc.); number of microphone positions and angular variations measured, etc.
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#376707 - 05/20/12 10:01 PM Re: Exciting News From Axiom! [Re: JohnK]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7047
Loc: Canada
John. How useful would anechoic measurements be with rear firing speakers? Even if you could measuere at more than one position in an anechoic chamber, what would that tell you about how the sound combines in a real room at the listening position?
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#376708 - 05/20/12 10:08 PM Re: Exciting News From Axiom! [Re: dakkon]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Alex, the rear speakers should have no effect on the listening window curve. The measurements taken for that can vary, but typically they're anechoic measurements taken on axis and about 10 degrees above and below axis and possibly 10, 20 and 30 degrees to left and right of axis. So, those frontal response measurements should not reflect(pun intended)the contribution of the rear speakers, which would be absorbed by the anechoic chamber wedges.

The sound power curve is significantly affected, since that's an attempt to measure omnidirectional output at numerous angles(Dr. Toole speaks of using 70), front, back, up, down, side to side. This is sometimes done using a "typical" listening room rather than an anechoic chamber, but an anechoic chamber can also be used for an omnidirectional measurement by varying the position of the speaker so that a large number of angles to the microphone are taken into account and an omnidirectional result is obtained from direct measurements, despite the reflections being absorbed.

In general, the closer the sound power curve is to the listening window curve, the more nearly omnidirectional is the speaker. Looking at both graphs, the LFR appears to have an edge in that respect, although it isn't known if the measurement conditions differed.

Note that the anechoic chamber bass measurements aren't accurate below about 80Hz(because of the size of the wedges)and so the 70Hz flat LFR number may not be fairly compared to the 35Hz flat Model T number. Possibly one or both of the measurements have had a calibration adjustment applied to the lowest bass numbers to increase their accuracy.

Incidentally, I will say that looking at the all black Axiom drivers that Tanner shows on one model, they strike me as being more attractive than the present Axiom standard issue, and something that might be considered for adoption in Axiom models.

Edit: Fred, the above reply might partially answer your question. It appears that if they spin the speaker around to a large number of angles in the chamber(e.g., 70 per Dr.Toole), they consider this result to be in adequately close agreement with live listening room numbers.







Edited by JohnK (05/20/12 10:19 PM)
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#376720 - 05/21/12 08:13 AM Re: Exciting News From Axiom! [Re: JohnK]
Ian Offline
President
aficionado

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 808
The curves in the graph were taken in our anechoic chamber with no smoothing applied. We do apply a correction below 80 Hz to take into account chamber inaccuracies that occur below this frequency but we do not do the final design of the low frequencies in the anechoic chamber. These are done on the tower. After the bass design is complete utilizing the tower we can write a custom correction for the chamber to give us an exact replica of the tower measurements below 80 Hz. This allows us to get the whole picture from the measurements taken in the anechoic chamber.

Designing a speaker is all about the family of curves. There are around 70 basic curves to consider when doing a speaker design and then, as you start to factor in various microphone positions, this number grows in multiples and you can easily end up with over 200 curves to consider. Understanding the family of curves and their relationship to the listening experience is the key to designing great-sounding speakers. This is where Double Blind Listen Testing is so invaluable. The only way to know how changes to various curves affect the end listening experience is the empirical test results that come from endless Double Blind Listen Testing.

The omnidirectional multi-channel design of the LFR1100 gives us much more control over the entire family of curves: a control which is made possible by having the DSP in the mix. The LFR1100 is not designed to be 100% omnidirectional which would mean the sound power and the listening window would be essentially the same curve, and not one you would want to have equal energy at all frequencies. It is instead a blend of front-firing only and 100% omnidirectional designs, a sort of cherry picking of the best attributes of both designs.
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#376725 - 05/21/12 01:26 PM Re: Exciting News From Axiom! [Re: Ian]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7047
Loc: Canada
Thanks for the replies John and Ian. I have to admit, I'm intriged by the LFR's.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#376744 - 05/21/12 09:13 PM Re: Exciting News From Axiom! [Re: Ian]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Ian, thanks for the info.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#377722 - 06/02/12 06:47 AM Re: Exciting News From Axiom! [Re: Amie]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11208
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
So I'm excited that this is the month when the new speakers will actually end up in the hands of mortals. May there be zero courier mishaps.

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#377726 - 06/02/12 11:45 AM Re: Exciting News From Axiom! [Re: CV]
SBrown Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 813
Loc: Victoria,BC
Now you jinxed us CV, I just noticed that the "cutomize yours" page doesn't show up properly on the LFR's.
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