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#380939 - 07/31/12 01:35 PM M22 in-wall advice
F16Thud Offline
buff

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 42
Loc: Utah
Hello, I have been a long time follower of Axiom (since about 2004), and I'm finally ready to buy some speakers within a week or so!!

I am looking at the M22 in-walls for my front L and R speakers. I am simply wanting the best sound I can get for about $550! But, I really want to stick with an in-wall speaker, for a nice clean look (WAF and Kids running around).

The only real difference between the M22 in-walls and other brands, is the tweeter can swivel but Axiom's don't. Is that really a big enough deal to go to another brand (Polk, Definitive Tech, Aperion)??

I have just seen numerous posts saying how people prefer the boxed M22, because they can position the speaker (tweeter) to get the desired imaging.

So, why didn't Axiom make a swiveling tweeter for their in-wall speakers? Or, is it simply not a big enough deal for Axiom to make it happen?

What I do really like, is that Axiom has designed the M22 with a back box, and few companies seem to incorporate that with the speaker itself (Monitor Audio) its usually and additional accessory! I just don't want my walls to "sing along", Its just another variable that I would think would be undesirable. Being that the speakers are in the wall, Im sure it will affect the sound a tiny bit anyway.

So, please send your thoughts! I really appreciate your time!

Thanks

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#380942 - 07/31/12 02:07 PM Re: M22 in-wall advice [Re: F16Thud]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16273
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
F16,

As you've already noted, Axiom speakers include the back box, an integral part of controlling the quality of any speaker's output. If you can't control the back sound wave, then you can't control the sound of your speaker. The advantages of Axiom's in-wall speaker design outweigh the benefits of the "swivability" of the tweeters provided with other brands.
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"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#380950 - 07/31/12 04:44 PM Re: M22 in-wall advice [Re: pmbuko]
cb919 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 1041
Loc: Ottawa, Canada
Originally Posted By: pmbuko
...The advantages of Axiom's in-wall speaker design outweigh the benefits of the "swivability" of the tweeters provided with other brands.


Peter, I am pretty sure the word is 'rotationality'! grin

F16, I have the in/on wall M22's and have not felt the need to aim the tweeters. The Axiom on or in wall designs really takes care of most of the variables. IMO Axiom really has a bang for the buck advantage when it comes to on wall speaker designs.

Cheers,
_________________________
Dan
In/On Wall 500 w M2 Center Channel

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#380955 - 07/31/12 05:28 PM Re: M22 in-wall advice [Re: F16Thud]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8283
Loc: Tacoma
Part of what makes Axiom speakers sound so good is their flat off-axis response, which also mitigates the need to aim the tweeters. Having the tweeters in a different plane than the other driver(s) will certainly compromise the sonic image.

Basically, I think swivelable tweeters are a gimmick employed by speakers that may not be designed very well in the first place.
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#380959 - 07/31/12 06:10 PM Re: M22 in-wall advice [Re: F16Thud]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5833
Loc: Some random location
I don't know about the in-wall, but I reported a couple of years ago about the large amount of comb-filtering I discovered with the On-wall M22's. This may be a problem with all on wall or in wall speakers. I don't know. It was enough to turn me off from them, though. The boxy M22's did not have this same problem.

I would play a constant pitch sound at a constant volume, using one of the CD's I have with these kind of sound tracks on it. As I slowly walked from one side of the room to the other, holding a radio shack sound meter (pointed at the speakers), my ears and the meter would pick up the volume differences that would go up and down as I moved. They would stay at the same level with no movement. There were a lot of variances and only an inch or 2 apart from each other.

I've never heard anyone else prove this one way or the other.

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#380961 - 07/31/12 06:45 PM Re: M22 in-wall advice [Re: F16Thud]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8283
Loc: Tacoma
Well, yeah, positioning is always going to be critical whether you're talking about traditional speakers or inwalls or whatever. And I mean positioning in all three planes, and relative to all the other planes in your house.

The problem with any built-in speaker is that it's almost impossible to know exactly how everything is going to sound until you get it installed, and - by then - it's too late to make positioning adjustments practically.

The room is pretty important, and you can't really use trial and error to adjust the relationship between the room and the speakers if you are using inwalls.
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#380963 - 07/31/12 07:21 PM Re: M22 in-wall advice [Re: F16Thud]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5833
Loc: Some random location
That sounds like the same response I got last time. Assuming it was caused by the room. I'm not convinced it was my room. I can't see how the room would alter what is coming out of the front of the speakers. Remember, I tried the same experiment with the boxy speakers. The we're placed at the same height and absolutely no comb filtering with them. To me this disproves it was the room.

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#380964 - 07/31/12 07:27 PM Re: M22 in-wall advice [Re: F16Thud]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8283
Loc: Tacoma
Were they in the same PLANE? Did you mount the box speakers so that their fronts were exactly the same distance from every wall (including the mounting wall) as the others? It's not just "what's coming out of the front of the speakers" that matters; it's the room reflections, too. And "what's coming out the front" is certainly affected by the size and shape of the immediately adjacent surface.

Look, I don't know why you perceived comb filtering, but you're going to have a hard time convincing me that either the room is irrelevant or that your conditions were sufficiently controlled as to be conclusive.
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#380965 - 07/31/12 07:42 PM Re: M22 in-wall advice [Re: F16Thud]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5833
Loc: Some random location
Not a controlled test. I'm just reporting my observances. It was enough to convince me that the boxy speakers were more accurate than the on-wall variety. No need to mount the boxy M22 on the same plane. That wouldn't reflect actual listening experience.

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#381005 - 08/01/12 12:54 PM Re: M22 in-wall advice [Re: F16Thud]
F16Thud Offline
buff

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 42
Loc: Utah
Thanks for all the input! I will be placing my order shortly!

The whole comb filtering issue is a bit odd. My uneducated guess would be a faulty driver or crossover??

Anyway, I am going to give Axiom a go, and I'll be sure to post some pics!

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