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#381364 - 08/12/12 07:55 AM How do M60's high end sound?
kwk1 Offline
regular

Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 9
Loc: MB, Canada
Hi there.
I've heard Polk rti a7's and the highs are very harsh. Listened to Energy cf-50's and a little in your face, but not too bad. Last ones I auditioned were Paradigm M9's, they sounded great. Could someone tell me about how the Axiom's sound compared to any of these? I'm mostly concerned about not having a harsh top end. Thanks for reading and any advice is most appreciated.

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#381375 - 08/12/12 10:01 AM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: kwk1]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13321
Loc: Iowa
Many times what you hear in a negative way is a result of the room characteristics, incorrect calibration setup, speaker placement, or the quality of the music track (for ex. compressed mp3's). But there still is a chance that the speaker design can result in uneasy listening for many users, and that is very subjective. Everyone will have different opinions on what their ears like.

With that said, I have never really considered Axiom speakers of being harsh or bright. Back when I was looking for speakers and found out about Axiom, I thought they sounded similar to Paradigm "Studio" series and the B&W 703's.

The only time I've heard any hint of harshness, was when I was listening to ripped music with compression. That is not the fault of the speaker. But, if you are listening to a properly recorded music track, you will be astonished how good it sounds.

Hopefully, you can do an audition of some Axiom speakers.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#381407 - 08/12/12 10:03 PM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: kwk1]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10372
KW, welcome. No valid comparison between the speakers you mention can be made unless it's done at the same time with the same program material and other factors are as identical as possible.

It can be said that the treble on the Axioms isn't "harsh" in itself. If poorly recorded program material has that characteristic, then any speakers which are accurate, including Axioms, will reproduce it, which is of course what quality speakers should do. At least partially correcting such material is what we use tone controls for.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#381412 - 08/13/12 12:25 AM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: kwk1]
kwk1 Offline
regular

Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 9
Loc: MB, Canada
Thanks for the replies JohnK and Sirquack. While I do live in the province next to Ontario, it is still about 2000 miles to the Axiom shops. Is there any other places to audition these other than ordering them? I also noticed that they recently had a sale of $2xx.00 off of the 60's and 80's, wonder when the next sale will be. I hear you about speakers sounding different because of equipment, surroundings and set-up. I still don't think I'd purchase speakers that didn't sound good to me, regardless of the set-up. I may give Axiom a call and see what I can find out. Thanks again.

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#381415 - 08/13/12 06:25 AM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: kwk1]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1263
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Kwk, if you go to this page, you can find a list - by region - of Axiom speaker owners who are willing to let you hear their systems:
http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=184230#Post184230

you can get in contact with someone on the list by sending a PM or email, or by getting in contact with Amie for help.
some of those people in the list may not be available anymore.

those who have answered you are right; the only times my tweeters are harsh is when the recording itself IS harsh.
Axiom speakers are very revealing of everything, and when a recording is first class, then you have a hell of an experience, with pinpoint placement and imaging and realistic stage, even sometimes in the third dimension: not only width and depth, but also up-down.
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See:http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Gelli
or: Axiom Gallery

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#381416 - 08/13/12 08:49 AM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: kwk1]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10848
Loc: Central NH
KWK-
Welcome to the forum! Keep in mind that although auditioning somewhere else is a nice option to have, the in-home audition is likely your best bet.

Each room has a different, and major, influence on the sound you'll get. Hearing ANY speakers somewhere else will not necessarily tell you what they'll sound like in YOUR room.

Some people think that the benefit of being able to really listen to the speakers over 30 days is an enormous benefit to buying from Axiom. The worst case is that you send them back- but the return shipping is not really all that much...especially if you think of it as "rent" for having the system for 30 days! smile
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::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#381417 - 08/13/12 08:55 AM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: kwk1]
Boltron Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/18/11
Posts: 170
Loc: Toronto
I live in Mississauga and am listed on the auditioning page under lfe@coolbeans.ca. I have M80s, VP150, QS4s and an EP500 in addition to two other Polks. Feel free to contact me.

I find Axioms don't sound harsh at all, they produce very pleasing sound. My environment is primarily for home theater use but I do also listen to some music. The M80s are especially fine, they just "articulate" the sound so well for lack of a better term.
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For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert.

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#381418 - 08/13/12 08:58 AM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: MarkSJohnson]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1263
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
KWK-
The worst case is that you send them back- but the return shipping is not really all that much...especially if you think of it as "rent" for having the system for 30 days! smile


i never thought of it that way. :-)
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See:http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Gelli
or: Axiom Gallery

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#381481 - 08/14/12 01:39 AM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: kwk1]
kwk1 Offline
regular

Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 9
Loc: MB, Canada
Thanks for the welcome, all the replies and offers.Thanks JB for the audition link.
I just sent a pm to chesseroo who has M60 and vp150 that lives in Winnipeg. Maybe I'll get to hear them after all. It would be nice and easier than ordering and sending back if I'm not happy with them.

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#381722 - 08/16/12 10:46 PM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: kwk1]
kwk1 Offline
regular

Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 9
Loc: MB, Canada
Hi guys,
just another question. If I'm mainly listening to music, would the vp-100 suffice for a center channel? M60's would be for the front and M2's for the rear. Or is there any other suggestions with M60?
They have cherry M60's in the outlet too.
Thanks,
Ken

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#381723 - 08/16/12 10:48 PM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: kwk1]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17751
Loc: NoVA
I would get something bigger/better than the VP100 for music. I have no issues with it for dialog, but with music, it simply doesn't keep up.

That said, my VP100 is a ti/v1, and Alan has told me that the v3 is improved. YMMV.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#381724 - 08/16/12 11:13 PM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: kwk1]
kwk1 Offline
regular

Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 9
Loc: MB, Canada
Thanks for the reply Ken.
See, I don't have a clue, is it normal to listen to music with the center channel? What about rears, would you use those for music as well?
PS: Is there a way to get email when a reply is made to a thread?

Thanks,
Ken

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#381730 - 08/17/12 01:27 AM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: kwk1]
cb919 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 1041
Loc: Ottawa, Canada
Another welcome kwk1,
To get an email update on thread responses, just add the thread to your watchlist under topic options, then in your watchlist, choose the edit watchlists option and select the email notification immediately radio button.

As for center channel, the best option is another M60. Having 3 identical speakers for LCR is the best. However if this is not practical, then look into either the VP-160 to match the M60's, or an option I highly recommend is to use an M22 or M2 as a vertical center channel.

And for music playback in general - I always listen in full surround, even when the source material is a regular stereo CD. I let my receiver decode the signal using DPLIIx or similar method. I find the sound much more pleasing in surround than straight stereo (or 2.1).

Hope that helps.
_________________________
Dan
In/On Wall 500 w M2 Center Channel

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#381733 - 08/17/12 02:40 AM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: kwk1]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10372
Ken, I'll second Dan's suggestions. Depending on your budget and space available, consider a VP160 or vertical M22/M2 for a center. Also, consider QSs for surrounds.

Yes, CDs and other 2-channel music source materials are heard best when the surround ambience picked up by the microphones and mixed into the front channels(there was no place else to put it)is extracted by a mode such as DPLII and sent to the surrounds where it belongs.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#381734 - 08/17/12 08:48 AM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: kwk1]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4422
Loc: Marion, IA
That is a tough call on the VP100. If you watched a lot of movies, then I would say VP160 for sure. But if it is mostly music???

Are you looking at the standar Boston Cherry finish, or a custom Cherry finish?

Some of us (ME) could get you a heck of a deal on a Boston Cherry VP150 via the Axiom Auction page. laugh
_________________________
http://ht.buol.us
M60s, VP180, VP150, QS8s, SVS 20-39PCi, HTPC, JVC RS45, Onkyo TX-NR709, Shakers

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#381735 - 08/17/12 08:53 AM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: kwk1]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17751
Loc: NoVA
Yeah, I might just go for a VP150.

In fact, I've been trying to talk myself (and my wife) into that for awhile... not this year, I think.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#381736 - 08/17/12 09:10 AM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: kwk1]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10848
Loc: Central NH
I'll throw out the fact that when I used the VP150, I primarily listened to music in 2-channel stereo. Since moving up to the VP160, I primarily listen to music in surround modes because the VP160 does such a great job with the all-important vocals.
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#381775 - 08/17/12 12:50 PM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: kwk1]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8271
Loc: Tacoma
I think Dan's post is right-on.

I have M60's and a VP100. I DO listen to music in the matrixed (surround) mode. The VP100 is a nice, little speaker. But my next upgrade will be to either a VP160 or VP180. I don't really have the right room/equipment configuration to try a vertical center channel.

You know, we all make compromises all the time. The trick is to be happy with your choices. I'm "content" with the VP100 at the moment, because it fits absolutely seamlessly into my equipment bench that supports the TV. Right now, my aesthetic/sonic balance is way off to one side. Someday, I'll tilt that balance the other way.

If you want "The Best Sound" - or will look back at your choices and mourn not getting it - then you need to step up to a 160 or 180. If you are willing to sacrifice "a bit" of sonic power/clarity in the name of finances or aesthetics, I'm sure you'll be just delighted with the VP100 or VP150.
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bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#381802 - 08/17/12 08:21 PM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: kwk1]
kwk1 Offline
regular

Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 9
Loc: MB, Canada
Great to see all the responses everyone.
cb919, thanks, I now have email notifications working.
My scenario can't use an M60 for centre, too big.
JohnK, sounds to me like a vp-160 is the way to go.
nickbuol, Boston Cherry, what kind of deal for a vp-150?
I read somewhere that they have a narrow sound field, is that true at all? If I could get one of those, or a vp-160 cheap, that would work.
Kenc, what are you using now, a vp-100?
MarkSJohnson, yes, it's starting to sound like the vp-160 is the way to go.
tomtuttle, I agree with everything you said, I gues it boils down to budget, but that's often the case.

I am close to ordering M60's in cherry.
I talked to Brent and he couldn't tell me what imperfections they have, but he said they'd be very minor. In fact, he said a game on the forum is to try and find what is wrong with them.
Tomorrow, I am going to have a second listen to Paradigm M9 v7's.
Thing is, they have 5.25 " woofers, the M11's have 6.5" woofers like the M60. M11's are too pricey for me so I think the M60's will have bigger bass sounds which I like.

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#381803 - 08/17/12 08:23 PM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: kwk1]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17751
Loc: NoVA
Yes, I'm using a VP100ti (aka v1)
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#381810 - 08/17/12 11:47 PM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: kwk1]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1844
Originally Posted By: kwk1

I talked to Brent and he couldn't tell me what imperfections they have, but he said they'd be very minor. In fact, he said a game on the forum is to try and find what is wrong with them.


The only "imperfection" i could find on one of my B stock speakers was a little bit too much clear glue on the driver... This was AFTER owning the speaker for 7 years and having it apart 3 times..... The imperfections are small enough that someone who doesn't deal with the product on a daily basis would almost certainly never notice it. In all actuality, Axiom could most likely sell the majority of their "B stock" product as A stock and the owner would never know the difference......


On another note Kwik1, when i had my M60's and a VP150, i would ONLY listen to music in 2 channel stereo.. The 150 can not keep up with the M60's... No way, no how... if you want to listen to multichannel music and have everything blend well, i would either go with a vp-160 or a vp-180. I feel that the 150 is jut too small of a speaker. However, this is just my opionion....

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#381821 - 08/18/12 07:38 AM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: kwk1]
kwk1 Offline
regular

Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 9
Loc: MB, Canada
Hey dakkon, thanks for the info on the b-stock.
Vp-150 is that bad for music eh?
Well, if I go Axiom, I'll get the M60's for now, and get the rest in due time. If I find the M60's good for music on their own, I may just go vp-100 or vp-150 for the tv stuff. Heck, I don't even have a newer tv yet. I'm still using a Sony crt! Just waiting for the right sale to come along.

The other thing I like better with the Axiom's over the Paradigm's is a much more efficient speaker. I just got a new Pioneer receiver that has 110 watts/ch and I don't want to have to get a separate amp to boot.

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#381837 - 08/18/12 02:05 PM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: kwk1]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1844
Originally Posted By: kwk1

Vp-150 is that bad for music eh?


I wouldn't say "bad", but under sized when compared or matched with a pair of M60's or other tower speakers. I think if you had a pair of M22's and a 150 then everything would blend much better, as all of the speakers would be of a simmilar size..

Keep in mind, the M60's are towers with lots of space.. The 150 is a pretty small speaker.

Here are a couple photos, the top speaker is a VP150, the bottom is a VP180



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#381844 - 08/18/12 04:20 PM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: kwk1]
Gary Vose Sr Offline
devotee

Registered: 03/17/12
Posts: 302
Loc: Casa Grande, AZ
When I inquired with Axiom about their B stock product, I was told most of the time it was either to much glue, or minor scratches on a driver. For the additional savings, I choose this route.
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"When arguing with an IDIOT... make sure the person you're talking to... isn't doing the same."

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#381877 - 08/19/12 08:20 PM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: dakkon]
kwk1 Offline
regular

Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 9
Loc: MB, Canada
Originally Posted By: dakkon
Originally Posted By: kwk1

Vp-150 is that bad for music eh?


I wouldn't say "bad", but under sized when compared or matched with a pair of M60's or other tower speakers. I think if you had a pair of M22's and a 150 then everything would blend much better, as all of the speakers would be of a simmilar size..

Keep in mind, the M60's are towers with lots of space.. The 150 is a pretty small speaker.

Here are a couple photos, the top speaker is a VP150, the bottom is a VP180


Thanks for the photos dakkon. There is a definate difference in size!
There is a vp-160 on the auction up in 45 minutes.
The tv stand I'm looking at might not be able to accomodate the vp-160. Mainly the height of it. The vp-150 would fit like a charm. I'm having a tough time deciding whether to get the 160, or go for the 150.

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#381878 - 08/19/12 08:22 PM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: Gary Vose Sr]
kwk1 Offline
regular

Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 9
Loc: MB, Canada
Originally Posted By: Gary Vose Sr
When I inquired with Axiom about their B stock product, I was told most of the time it was either to much glue, or minor scratches on a driver. For the additional savings, I choose this route.


Thanks for that Gary, I think my mind is okay with b-stock now.

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#382045 - 08/24/12 02:58 AM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: kwk1]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10372
Just to note, as announced in the August Newsletter earlier today, the Factory Outlet has been returned to allow purchase of essentially any "blemished" Axiom speaker at a 10% discount(replacing the "Auction" process for specific units).

This was the process until two years ago, and it appeared to me and others to have worked well and didn't need fixing. We had been able to suggest to prospective Axiom owners that they could get a 10% discount(and an additional 5% for purchasing at least 5 items)to better fit their budget, by purchasing from the Outlet. The substitution of the auction format for specific items was inadequate in my view and I've never suggested it to anyone.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#382053 - 08/24/12 11:27 AM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: kwk1]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4800
Loc: western canada
John, you almost sound bitter.

I have to say the FO is my preference as well. The idea of online auctions is so passe...
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#383636 - 10/03/12 10:57 PM Re: How do M60's high end sound? [Re: dakkon]
axiom_man Offline
devotee

Registered: 05/09/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Bridgewater, Nova Scotia, Cana...
Originally Posted By: dakkon
Originally Posted By: kwk1

Vp-150 is that bad for music eh?


I wouldn't say "bad", but under sized when compared or matched with a pair of M60's or other tower speakers. I think if you had a pair of M22's and a 150 then everything would blend much better, as all of the speakers would be of a simmilar size..

Keep in mind, the M60's are towers with lots of space.. The 150 is a pretty small speaker.



Holy crap I did not think there was that much of a size difference.
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