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#384622 - 10/24/12 09:13 AM Newbie Questions
Shawzy44 Offline

Registered: 10/24/12
Posts: 2
I am thinking about pulling the trigger on the following:

M80s, VP150 iw/ow center and the EP125 sub. Having read some threads I shouldn't I be concerned with my current Denon 2809CI amp to push these, right?

My main questions is my homebuilder pre-installed some thin gauged speaker wire (maybe 20 gauge) would this smaller wire put up too much resistance? Should I replace this with something with less resistance like 18-gauge?



#384624 - 10/24/12 09:17 AM Re: Newbie Questions [Re: Shawzy44]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17766
Loc: NoVA
Welcome, Kevin!

I wouldn't combine the EP125 with M80s--you're unlikely to get much more out of that than out of the M80s!

Your receiver will be fine.

As for the speaker wire, replace it with 14 or lower gauge (or at worst 16).
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

#384635 - 10/24/12 02:02 PM Re: Newbie Questions [Re: Shawzy44]
nickbuol Offline

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4447
Loc: Marion, IA
Welcome Kevin.

Ken is right. The EP125 will seem weak compared to what the M80s can do by themselves.

He is also correct in that you need to get some much thicker wire. 20 gauge is REALLY small. Maybe some low power HTIB would work with that, but not nice speakers like Axioms (or any major brand for that matter).

I've gotten away with 16 gauge for surrounds in the past, but ran all 14 gauge for my recent finish. Some people here will recommend 12 gauge as a "this will handle anything" kind of wire.

How long will the runs be from the receiver to the speakers? If it is a long run, then the larger gauge (smaller number) will be more important.

I wonder if you can use the existing stuff to pull some new wire through your walls? Probably not that lucky as contractors like to staple any wires down, but you might get lucky.

Check out for wiring as they have great quality and about the lowest prices out there.

Again, welcome.
M60s, VP180, VP150, QS8s, SVS 20-39PCi, HTPC, JVC RS45, Onkyo TX-NR709, Shakers

#384640 - 10/24/12 03:16 PM Re: Newbie Questions [Re: Shawzy44]
tomtuttle Offline

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8283
Loc: Tacoma

Your Denon will be fine.

You don't mention your intended use (movies v. music, size of room, etc.). I'm guessing that - since you are getting an IW/OW center, you are looking at a pretty clean install for viewing content on a flat screen.

If you have the M80's, you probably don't really need a sub for music or for most TV. If you are watching movies, you're going to want quite a bit more sub than an EP175. If you have room for M80's, your room is probably too big for an EP175 to be effective.

IMO, M80's are overkill unless you have a pretty big room AND you will be playing content at a pretty high volume. I mean, "I just want them" is a totally valid reason, too, of course. But if you're going to be watching movies and have to balance the budget, I'd get more subwoofer and less main.

Check out the wire table and other information at Roger Russell's site. 20g wire might be okay up to about 20 feet IF your speakers are also a pretty easy load, which the M80's are not.

Have fun.
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

#384648 - 10/24/12 06:26 PM Re: Newbie Questions [Re: Shawzy44]
Adrian Offline

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6609
Loc: It's all about the location.
Welcome, Shawzy.

It's highly recommended that you use 12-14 gauge wiring vs 20 gauge as others have already mentioned. You'd want to be looking at the EP350, competitors equivalent, or greater to compliment your M80s, I think you'd find anything smaller a bit redundant where M80s are concerned.

Don't worry about your Denon 2809...never had a problem with mine running an M80 based HT.
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

#384650 - 10/24/12 06:58 PM Re: Newbie Questions [Re: Shawzy44]
DanielBMe Offline

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 394
Loc: Toronto - ON
I just traded in my M80's for M22's, VP150, and dual ep500's. While I loved the M80's, I just felt that volume wise I just didn't need them. For my room the M22's and dual subs will be more than enough volume wise and will overall probably sound better. You might want to include your room dimensions so the experts here can give you some other alternatives to consider.

Edited by DanielBMe (10/24/12 06:59 PM)
M22's v3, 2 x EP500v3, VP150v3, QS4's, Denon 3808CI

My Botswana Safari photos

#384651 - 10/24/12 07:05 PM Re: Newbie Questions [Re: Shawzy44]
dakkon Online   content

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
I would recommend going to a VP-160 instead of the 150.. When i had my 150 i always though it was unable to keep up with my M60's... People with M80's have had similar feelings.... that is if you can afford it... Of course, if we didn't have to live within financial constraints... Then our decisions would be MUCH easier... smile

#384653 - 10/24/12 07:21 PM Re: Newbie Questions [Re: Shawzy44]
tomtuttle Offline

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8283
Loc: Tacoma
Alex, he may have physical space constraints, too.
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

#384657 - 10/24/12 08:57 PM Re: Newbie Questions [Re: tomtuttle]
dakkon Online   content

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Alex, he may have physical space constraints, too.

Tom, there is no such thing as space constraints... Simply inconveniences, which can be solved with one of these....


#384659 - 10/24/12 09:32 PM Re: Newbie Questions [Re: Shawzy44]
JohnK Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10383
Kevin, welcome. Agree that the M80s have enough bass that the EP125 wouldn't be a major addition, so if a substantially stronger sub isn't to be used now, go with the M80s alone.

Your 2809 will be fine for all safe(to your hearing)listening levels.

You haven't described your room setup, and I might suggest a different center, such as the in/on wall M22 if it can fit.

As to the wire, study Mr. Russell's excellent discussion, which Tom linked. If at this time you're only considering front speakers with relatively short runs, that thin wire may be sufficient. Something more precise than "maybe 20 gauge" would be helpful to know, so if you can compare the end with something else of known gauge, or cut off an end and compare it at a hardware store, do so.

This raises a question as to why you haven't mentioned side surrounds, which can add a great deal to all music and movie program material, especially if QSs are used. This should be an immediate consideration.

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.

#384670 - 10/25/12 07:18 AM Re: Newbie Questions [Re: Shawzy44]
AdrianD Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 85
Loc: Maple, Ontario
Hi Kevin, and welcome!
As everyone stated already:
1. Your receiver should be fine, unless you're listening to very high levels for extended periods of time.
2. EP 125 won't do much for you with M80s; I've tried it myself.
3. Do replace you current wire with 14 gauge (or even 12), especially if your speakers will be more than a few feet away from the receiver. It shouldn't be very complicated since you have the wire already; just tied them up at one end and pull from the other. The cost should be reasonable as well.
M80 v3, 2 x Emotiva UPA-1 Monoblocks, XPA-5, UMC-1 PrePro
Pro-Ject RPM Genie, Carver C2 Phono Preamp

#384681 - 10/25/12 09:53 AM Re: Newbie Questions [Re: Shawzy44]
CatBrat Offline

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5837
Loc: Some random location
I think the EP125, EP175 is more for the M2/M3 crowd. I tried EP175 with my M22's and found it came up short. EP350 works excellent with M22's, and I'm thinking about trading up to the EP500 some day, for an even better bass sound.

For wire, I just buy Axioms 12 gauge and then don't have to worry about it.

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