Get Free, Friendly, Expert Advice
Call 1-866-244-8796 or email

Designed and Manufactured in Canada Since 1980


AxiomAudio Blog

Axiom’s Newest Speaker: The In-Ceiling M3

Outdoor Speaker Placement

Speaker Placement: Unusual Room Layouts and Elevating Speakers

Wall'O'Fame
Greetings fellow Axiom owners...
HG Rosewoods Part 3
Who's Online
1 registered (fredk), 49 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Financing
Forum Stats
13310 Members
11 Forums
22848 Topics
403710 Posts

Max Online: 378 @ 02/24/13 04:33 PM
Top Posters
Ken.C 17753
pmbuko 16267
SirQuack 13323
CV 11162
MarkSJohnson 10853
Meanwhile On Facebook

Get a Gift Card Worth 20% of Your Purchase! Save hundreds!

Got your new In-Ceiling speakers yet? #atmosready http://axiomaudio.com/m3-in-c...

(y) Can't wait for the next evolution of surround sound to go mainstream!

Pre-order our new in-ceiling speakers and save 25%! Offer ends August 11th.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#388883 - 01/28/13 12:56 AM Out of phase
brwsaw Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 998
Re ran YPAO 3 times with the same out of phase message on the 4 channels wired to my ADA1000.
The wiring is correct. Any chance RCA cables for video are different( I used left over cables from the satelite/PVR packaging)? I can't see it being the output on the reciever or the input on the amp.
I could swap the cables on one speaker and re run YPAO. Is there a risk of damaging speakers when used out of phase?
_________________________
Yep.
Yup.
Uh huh.

Top
#388886 - 01/28/13 06:29 AM Re: Out of phase [Re: brwsaw]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10853
Loc: Central NH
No, there is no risk.
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

Top
#388892 - 01/28/13 08:16 AM Re: Out of phase [Re: brwsaw]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6773
Loc: PEI, Canada
It is possible in certain situations to get false positives during auto calibration checks. Audyssey states that it is simply a 'warning' to double check you wiring. If you are satisfied everything is correct, then just hit [Skip] and proceed. It will have no effect on the rest of the calibration. I suspect it will not effect the results of YPAO either.
_________________________
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

Top
#388893 - 01/28/13 08:22 AM Re: Out of phase [Re: brwsaw]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5819
Loc: Some random location
I've had similar problems with MCACC and Audyssey. One time it was a wiring issue. The rest of the time it wasn't.

Top
#388900 - 01/28/13 10:50 AM Re: Out of phase [Re: brwsaw]
brwsaw Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 998
Thanks.
The sound isn't quite right but I moved/swapped every speaker when I set it up and think this might be why.
I've never had it display more than one channel out of phase before. Its actually pretty normal.
I think I'll swap the cables on the surrounds, listen to them for a bit and re run YPAO. It should sound better or worse and I'll know, right?
I've already had one scare with my M80's (havent been able to run them for a month) so I'll be a bit more carefull this time around.
_________________________
Yep.
Yup.
Uh huh.

Top
#388924 - 01/28/13 09:15 PM Re: Out of phase [Re: brwsaw]
cohesion Offline
local

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 209
Loc: Maple, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: brwsaw
Re ran YPAO 3 times with the same out of phase message on the 4 channels wired to my ADA1000.
The wiring is correct. Any chance RCA cables for video are different( I used left over cables from the satelite/PVR packaging)? I can't see it being the output on the reciever or the input on the amp.
I could swap the cables on one speaker and re run YPAO. Is there a risk of damaging speakers when used out of phase?


If all four channels are out of phase they are in effect in phase relative to each other but may be reversed in polarity compared to any other channels. How many other channels are you using and how are they wired?

Top
#388928 - 01/28/13 10:10 PM Re: Out of phase [Re: cohesion]
brwsaw Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 998
These 4 channels (LF/RF/RS/LS) are now run from the ADA1000 and the 5 remaining channels are still run by an RX-A1010.
All wired positive(cables marked) to red.


Edited by brwsaw (01/28/13 10:12 PM)
_________________________
Yep.
Yup.
Uh huh.

Top
#389071 - 01/31/13 10:42 PM Re: Out of phase [Re: brwsaw]
brwsaw Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 998
I finally gave up and listened to the voices in my head.
They sound quite a bit better now.
I don't know where/how/why but...
Officially I swapped + & - on the M80's and I'm at peace again.
I'll swap the cables on my rear towers and deal with the why later.


Edited by brwsaw (01/31/13 10:43 PM)
_________________________
Yep.
Yup.
Uh huh.

Top
#389087 - 02/01/13 12:52 PM Re: Out of phase [Re: brwsaw]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3186
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi,

Keep in mind that YPAO, Audyssey and other similar auto-setup programs can be very error-prone with phase calculations, especially with bipole, dipole or multi-directional surrounds like Axiom's QS8s and QS4s.

My best advice is to carefully wire your mains and surrounds noting the polarity of each cable and connection and not rely on the auto-setup schemes when it comes to phase determination.

Regards,
Alan
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

Top
#389100 - 02/01/13 08:24 PM Re: Out of phase [Re: alan]
brwsaw Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 998
Originally Posted By: alan
Hi,

Keep in mind that YPAO, Audyssey and other similar auto-setup programs can be very error-prone with phase calculations, especially with bipole, dipole or multi-directional surrounds like Axiom's QS8s and QS4s.

My best advice is to carefully wire your mains and surrounds noting the polarity of each cable and connection and not rely on the auto-setup schemes when it comes to phase determination.

Regards,
Alan



Thanks. I can't explain it, somethings wrong somewhere.
The wirings pretty straight forward. While its certainly not the first time I've swapped cables and or speakers it is the first time I've used the preouts on this reciever and or a seperate amp (other than for a passive sub).
Its internal and it'll bug me for a while.
I've moved my QS4's to the front presence locations in prepperation for QS8's in May. The towers I placed as my surrounds have been there before and are pleasing, I found myself being especially fond of the sound coming off the sides of them last time they were in this position. A little more placment tweaking and a wire swap and I'll try Avatar for the first time at home.
_________________________
Yep.
Yup.
Uh huh.

Top
#389119 - 02/02/13 02:02 PM Re: Out of phase [Re: brwsaw]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13323
Loc: Iowa
Never had a single problem with phase using Audyssey, jm2C
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

Top
#389120 - 02/02/13 02:22 PM Re: Out of phase [Re: cohesion]
brwsaw Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 998
If all four channels are out of phase they are in effect in phase relative to each other but may be reversed in polarity compared to any other channels. How many other channels are you using and how are they wired?[/quote]


I've swapped the four channels at the speaker(s) and now have correct sound and YPAO now confirms they're in phase.
I knew something was wrong, but I've never heard speakers that were wire wired incorrectly(not my own anyway.
Believe it or not, even out of phase they sounded better than the speakers they replaced.
_________________________
Yep.
Yup.
Uh huh.

Top
#389122 - 02/02/13 02:35 PM Re: Out of phase [Re: brwsaw]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13323
Loc: Iowa
So YPAQ was accurate and not faulty, good to know it was not error prone.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

Top
#389123 - 02/02/13 04:10 PM Re: Out of phase [Re: SirQuack]
brwsaw Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 998
Originally Posted By: PorterPlex
So YPAQ was accurate and not faulty, good to know it was not error prone.


It is error prone but never 4 at once. That and I couldn't get it to sound right.
During the last YPAO, the center was out. I hadn't changed the wiring or the speaker when installing the amp.
Not really a concern with one channel, its done it countless times before but never on multiple attempts or with more than one channel.
_________________________
Yep.
Yup.
Uh huh.

Top
#389167 - 02/03/13 05:27 PM Re: Out of phase [Re: brwsaw]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13323
Loc: Iowa
Maybe YPAQ, never used that technology, always Denon's with Audyssey.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

Top
#389170 - 02/03/13 05:54 PM Re: Out of phase [Re: brwsaw]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
I just did some wire adjustments on my system to accommodate a new PVR and discovered my network adapter in the 3808 was locked up. I had to do hard reset on the system to get everything working again. This means I lost all my settings etc. as I hadn't done a back up of my system settings, so I needed to run through Audyssey once again. I discovered I had managed to reverse the LF speaker connection, Audyssey revealed it to me while doing the setup, it is kind of nice it looks for these things.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

Top
#389171 - 02/03/13 05:54 PM Re: Out of phase [Re: brwsaw]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17753
Loc: NoVA
You can do a backup of your system config?
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

Top
#389172 - 02/03/13 05:55 PM Re: Out of phase [Re: brwsaw]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
On the 3808 with "command3808"

I believe it is also possible with the standard web interface as well.


Edited by jakewash (02/03/13 05:55 PM)
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

Top
#389186 - 02/03/13 10:58 PM Re: Out of phase [Re: brwsaw]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
I got that backwards, you can save your config via the built in web interface and having just checked with Command 3808 it does not provide config saving.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



Moderator:  alan, Amie, Andrew, axiomadmin, Brent, Debbie, Ian, Jc 

Home  |  Corporate Info  |  Products  |  Message Board  |  FAQs  |  Warranty  |  Site Map  |  Privacy Statement   |  Contact Us

©2014 Colquhoun Audio Laboratories Limited
All Rights Reserved.