There are several threads on AVS forum discussing the SC-61/SC-1222-K/SC-1227-K. Here is an interesting one: SC-61 thread. I have an SC-1522-K, corresponding to the SC-65/SC-1527-K models, which is similar, but with 2 extra channels and a little more power.

All these have class D amplifiers which are rated to drive 6ohm and 4ohm speakers, which should make them a good fit with several popular Axiom speakers. (However, when I said this in another thread here, everyone else seemed to think this was totally wrong.)

It is often said that Pioneer's calibration system MCACC suffers by comparison to, e.g., Audyssey, in failing to provide subwoofer equalization. Actually, loudness, distance, 3 band equalization (called "standing wave" correction), and phase correction for a sub are all provided by MCACC.

I hear (third hand, at best), that the Pioneer engineers in Japan are unwilling to provide more than just a single cross over because they think it introduces sonic phase problems. I've never seen a detailed discussion of this, though.

We didn't think you were wrong, we thought your rationale was wrong. There's a subtle difference.

Having experienced various settings in my room, I would never buy a receiver without independent crossovers.

Once again they are not "rated" at 4 ohms (as was pointed out in the other thread, there is a difference) but Pioneer has at least tested them with 4 ohms; kudos to Pioneer for at least doing this and giving the spec.

Pioneer's specification says how many watts they deliver into 4 ohms at 1kHz, 1% thd. That's a rating, so they are rated at 4 ohms. I really don't know what you're getting at. You, or someone, earlier pointed out that no ftc rating for 4 ohms is given in Pioneer's spec. That is also true.

Exactly.

Only with an FTC rating is an amp/receiver/avr truly "rated" at 4 ohm, the fact Pioneer did some tests at 4 ohm and prints it in the manual is just a bonus and gives the consumer some piece of mind if they so choose to use it with a 4 ohm speaker.

If preouts and lower cost are important considerations, the lowest I could find in a receiver is a yamaha rx-v773. $645.As far as crossover settings,from what I got out of the manual small speaker setting crossover adjusting only and then it's global.A review: http://www.digitaltrends.com/receivers-separates-amps-reviews/yamaha-rx-v773-review/

The Pioneer SC-1222-K is $550 from Newegg. Pre-outs, class D amplifiers.

hey thanks guys, i'm going to look into both of those

found the pioneer on newegg like you say, but only the states site(no such luck on the .ca site). and then it's not really worth it. After my province's tax, the duty, the shipping and handling...I'd be better off paying the 899 for the sc-1227k from futureshop in town here.

The rumor is that the Pioneer SC-1227-K, sold in Canada, the SC-1222-K, and the Elite SC-61 are functionally the same. (As are the SC-1527-K, SC-1522-K, and Elite SC-65.) Pioneer doesn't warranty the Elite models, though, when bought over the net.