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#391104 - 03/17/13 09:39 AM Tankless Water Heaters Suck
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4070
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Wash my hands, turn on the hot water, cold water ok. I'll wait...waiting...waiting...waiting...still cold water...1 minute later I just gave up. So I wash my hands with cold water.

Taking a shower is even more of an excruciating experience. First, waiting for the hot water, then getting a blast of cold water during the middle of a hot shower...then back to hot. Turning off the water during the middle of a shower is a bad idea....wait for the hot water again, oh another blast of cold water.

Not impressed with this technology at the moment. Perhaps you have to get into the high-end-very expensive units...I dunno. What you save in energy, you burn a lot in water consumption. I probably used double the amount of water to shower and triple the amount for washing my hands.
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#391111 - 03/17/13 11:38 AM Re: Tankless Water Heaters Suck [Re: BlueJays1]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6600
Loc: It's all about the location.
Did you just get the unit?
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#391112 - 03/17/13 11:42 AM Re: Tankless Water Heaters Suck [Re: Adrian]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4070
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Originally Posted By: Adrian
Did you just get the unit?


No. I was staying at a home that has a tankless. After that experience one would have to pry my 50 gallon tank from my warm, clean hands...

BTW I bumped your furnace thread a few days ago.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=322701&page=4
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#391118 - 03/17/13 02:05 PM Re: Tankless Water Heaters Suck [Re: BlueJays1]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Our tankless system works well for us but we also have a storage tank with circulation pump to keep the hot water much closer to the end source. I can have all 3 showers running with someone filling a bathtub at the same time and never run out of hot water.
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#391121 - 03/17/13 02:46 PM Re: Tankless Water Heaters Suck [Re: jakewash]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4070
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Originally Posted By: jakewash
Our tankless system works well for us but we also have a storage tank with circulation pump to keep the hot water much closer to the end source. I can have all 3 showers running with someone filling a bathtub at the same time and never run out of hot water.


Interesting. So essentially this would be considered a hybrid water heater? Your setup sounds more promising and much less of a compromise to me than a full on tankless system.
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Iím armed and Iím drinking. You donít want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

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#391123 - 03/17/13 03:11 PM Re: Tankless Water Heaters Suck [Re: BlueJays1]
a401classic Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/29/06
Posts: 1169
Loc: Alpharetta, GA
I think with any system, distance from heater comes into play more than type of heater. We currently have a 70 gal heater in the garage, set at 160F, and our shower is on the opposite end of the house (~100 feet of tubing). It takes a good minute for the water to start getting warm. Since our piping path goes subterranean twice, the water has to heat the area around the pipes (dirt, air, insulation, etc) before passing the heat to the user.

An old employer of min in California had a 110 gal heater with a recirc loop (in-line pump) that took hot water to with 5 feet of any tap; almost no wait time. The loop started 30 minutes before normal work hours and went to the end of the day. I miss that system.
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My HT

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#391126 - 03/17/13 03:38 PM Re: Tankless Water Heaters Suck [Re: BlueJays1]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4070
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Certainly. But with the tankless I can use the shower right after someone and still be dealing with cold water. On the other hand with a normal water heater there would be instantaneous hot water for that person. Or someone washing their hands in the washroom a half hour later. But still, I have never waited so long than with that tankless system and even then I just gave up on the hot water while washing my hands. Never have done that before.

I have not had an issue with hot water while running showers, washer, dishwasher etc. So perhaps I have been spoiled all these years with our 50 gal water heater. What I really hated with the tankless was getting moments of cold water after the water heated up during the shower....awful!

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Iím armed and Iím drinking. You donít want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

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#391127 - 03/17/13 03:43 PM Re: Tankless Water Heaters Suck [Re: BlueJays1]
onn Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 899
Loc: Edmonton Alberta
Are you sure or have you had anyone look at your system to see if it's working properly? It sounds like there's something not working as it should.
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#391128 - 03/17/13 03:44 PM Re: Tankless Water Heaters Suck [Re: onn]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4070
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Originally Posted By: onn
Are you sure or have you had anyone look at your system to see if it's working properly? It sounds like there's something not working as it should.


I don`t use a tankless system.
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Iím armed and Iím drinking. You donít want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#391132 - 03/17/13 03:58 PM Re: Tankless Water Heaters Suck [Re: BlueJays1]
onn Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 899
Loc: Edmonton Alberta
OK you were using someone else's system. So you're basing you opinion on tankless based on a system that you don't know if it's working properly. Did you raise your concerns with the owners of the house? If you did what did they say
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#391135 - 03/17/13 04:04 PM Re: Tankless Water Heaters Suck [Re: onn]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4070
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Originally Posted By: onn
OK you were using someone else's system. So you're basing you opinion on tankless based on a system that you don't know if it's working properly. Did you raise your concerns with the owners of the house? If you did what did they say


It is what it is. Nothing wrong with the system. Takes a while to get hot water, can't try to run too much hot water at once on different sources, doesn't sustain itself as well. Apparently a common trade-off of tankless. A cousin of mine also switched to a tankless the last couple years (family of 4) and they are not that impressed either. This was just my first time using one. Wouldn't switch to one at this point either. I'm all for efficient equipment too as I have one of the most efficient residential HVAC systems you can buy on the market.
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Iím armed and Iím drinking. You donít want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#391137 - 03/17/13 04:31 PM Re: Tankless Water Heaters Suck [Re: BlueJays1]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13318
Loc: Iowa
2 of my neighbors have no issues with their systems and large families, constant showers, etc. jm2c
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#391139 - 03/17/13 04:42 PM Re: Tankless Water Heaters Suck [Re: SirQuack]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4070
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Originally Posted By: PorterPlex
2 of my neighbors have no issues with their systems and large families, constant showers, etc. jm2c


Sure, the whole point of tankless is hot water on demand. You can't "run out" like that with an undersized tank system. I've only had that happen staying in Collingwood at cottages. With the tankless it is just that hot water is A LOT more finicky than what I would want to deal with on a daily basis.
_________________________
Iím armed and Iím drinking. You donít want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#391143 - 03/17/13 06:52 PM Re: Tankless Water Heaters Suck [Re: BlueJays1]
Da_Gimp_Pimp Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 4010
Loc: Sitting down somewhere
Originally Posted By: BlueJays1
Certainly. But with the tankless I can use the shower right after someone and still be dealing with cold water. On the other hand with a normal water heater there would be instantaneous hot water for that person.


I have had an instantaneous water heater for 5-6 years. The aforementioned is completely false regardless of the distance from the tank because the water doesn't have enough time to cool in the pipes. If you have a shower right after someone, an on-demand water heater provides the identical performance that a conventional water heater will.

Originally Posted By: BlueJays1
Or someone washing their hands in the washroom a half hour later. But still, I have never waited so long than with that tankless system and even then I just gave up on the hot water while washing my hands. Never have done that before.


The first sentence is very true, but this is because there's been a long span between calls for hot water at that point. ergo the water cools. The remainder of the paragraph indicates that the water heater isn't quite working to it's potential. A very common causation of an underperforming tankless unit is mineral deposits. Most people don't know that the tanks a *supposed* to be flushed with vinegar once a year.
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#391145 - 03/17/13 07:18 PM Re: Tankless Water Heaters Suck [Re: BlueJays1]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4070
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
I don't think it is a false statement. Sure, the water becomes hot quicker than it is for the first shower, but not as quick as a normal water heater. But this could be due to making adjustments as well. It seemed I had less control, it would get cold for a second or to even when I was still adjusting on the hot side.

Apparently waiting a minute or longer for hot water is "normal" on a tankless from what I have been reading, so I don't think it was under performing. It was also the first time the washroom was used that day.
_________________________
Iím armed and Iím drinking. You donít want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#391158 - 03/17/13 10:19 PM Re: Tankless Water Heaters Suck [Re: BlueJays1]
real80sman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 1121
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Yes, depending on the house layout it could take over a minute for the water to get hot. Our last house, because of its size, would take that long - even with the conventional tank.

The cold "shot" you got in the middle of the shower was because the water volume dropped below the minimum flow rate, and the burner shut off. He either needs a new flow sensor, or take the restrictor out of the shower head. This may also explain the extended turn on time.

Quote:
can't try to run too much hot water at once on different sources, doesn't sustain itself as well.

Actually, the more taps you have open, the better the heater works. The increased flow is sensed, and the modulating gas valve ramps up to a higher firing rate. My daughter wakes up and showers at the same time I do in the morning. We both have scalding hot water - indefinitely.

Quote:
If you have a shower right after someone, an on-demand water heater provides the identical performance that a conventional water heater will.


Not always. Once the tap has been shut off, and then turned back on, there will be a short delay before the burner re-fires. During this time, cold water will be flowing through. It has happened here.

Quote:
It seemed I had less control, it would get cold for a second or to even when I was still adjusting on the hot side.


That is part of the problem there. If you are using individual hot & cold taps, the hot should be full out, and then make adjustments on the cold side.

For us, having unlimited hotwater is well worth the trade off of waiting 30 extra seconds. At the end of the day, they are not perfect, and not for every one. But saying they all suck is unfair. It is like saying all Axiom subs suck because a few have had amp issues.
_________________________
Shawn

Epic 80/600 + M3's + Custom Finish Algonquin V3's

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#391160 - 03/17/13 10:27 PM Re: Tankless Water Heaters Suck [Re: BlueJays1]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Originally Posted By: BlueJays1

Interesting. So essentially this would be considered a hybrid water heater? Your setup sounds more promising and much less of a compromise to me than a full on tankless system.
That is what it is a hybrid system. If you google tankless water heaters you should find the correct method is to have a circulation pump connection to each station and/or under cabinet electric heaters etc. to cover for the time it takes the tankless to get hot water to the faucet when in use.

I would even suggest a circulation pump for standard water heaters when you have long runs, really cuts down on how much water gets wasted while waiting for hot water to arrive. My pump has a timer and I can have it shut down circulation during the night and start up just before we start our morning routines.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#391169 - 03/18/13 12:52 AM Re: Tankless Water Heaters Suck [Re: BlueJays1]
INANE Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 1660
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
My brother in law put a tankless in when he built his house and a few years later he disconnected it and put in a 50 gal. The tankless is still sitting on the wall (but not connected).
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HT v2.0 !
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