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#422 - 11/06/01 07:22 PM Bass extension
pbc Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 23
I noticed in the SoundStage reviews of the M40 & 80 that the NRC anechoic measurements of the 40 remain flat to below 40Hz while the 80 roll off steeply at 50. Any thoughts?

Thanks




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#423 - 11/07/01 05:18 AM Re: Bass extension
Ian Offline
President
aficionado

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 808
The output of the M80 is actually higher than the M40 at 40Hz, but the overall output of the M80 is higher than the M40 through the rest of the amplitude response. The M80 design is a slow roll off starting at a 60Hz where as the M40 is a steep roll off starting at 40Hz. In the listening environment the M80 has more and deeper bass than the M40 because of this, but both have impressive deep bass and even more impressive when given consideration that they are 6 1/2" woofer designs.

Ian Colquhoun
President & Chief Engineer
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Ian Colquhoun
President & Chief Engineer

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#424 - 11/07/01 09:24 AM Re: Bass extension
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have a few related follow-up questions:

Does the M60 have the same bass rolloff characteristics as the M80?

Could you contrast the "listening experience" of:
Sub/Sat configuration M22s- EP175
pair of M60s or M80s?

Does the M40/50 use the same crossover design approach as the M3 ( i.e. letting the tweeter rolloff naturally)?

How does the M50 avoid a 3db hump in the mid/lows if using the same drivers as the M40?

And just one more.... Doesn't the simpler crossover in the M3 ( & M40?) provide better performance than more complicated (60/80) 3 way designs?


Thanks for the speedy response.



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#425 - 11/08/01 06:56 AM Re: Bass extension
Ian Offline
President
aficionado

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 808
The M60 and M80 do have the same roll off characteristics. The M22 with sub is probably most similar to the M60 performance. The M3, M40, and M50 all use a similar cross over design. The tweeter in all of our models is reduced in output through the cross over. This leaves latitude to match it to the various output characteristics of different woofer combinations. The cross over itself does not produce any sound of its own; it is used to modify the response of the drive unit. In other words if you want to achieve a particular response you can achieve it through either driver design or cross over control of the driver. In reality you do it by a combination of both. We always concentrate on the driver designs first and then go to the cross over to get the end goal achieved. The overall performance however, at the end of the day, is accurate response in both cases.

Ian Colquhoun
President & Chief Engineer
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Ian Colquhoun
President & Chief Engineer

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#426 - 11/08/01 03:02 PM Re: Bass extension
pbc Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 23
Ian

Thanks again for quick your response - nice to hear some informed and responsible answers in a hype-filled industry.

I am, like everyone else, in the throws of a purchasing decision and have a couple more follow up thoughts I would love to get your input on:

1.) I realize the M80s absolute output at 40Hz is about equal to the M40s due to its greater overall sensitivity but its still down a good 5dB. Isn't a relative flat response more important, assuming I can turn up the volume to achieve the desired absolute SPL with out distortion?

2.) I always thought that crossover design and quality components were highly important to the sound - and that theoretically two (or more) perfectly matched
drivers that could be used without any crossover would be the best design. Agree? Anyhow, reviewers make it sound as if the M3 uses no crossover for the tweeter and only a high-pass filter for the woofer(s) and that perhaps this contributes to the great sound. Not so??

P.S. How early do you get to work???








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#427 - 11/14/01 09:00 AM Re: Bass extension
pbc Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 23
Duuuuu....

Had a slight dyslexia attach on my previous post, question #2. The M3 must have no crossover on the woofer and a high pass filter on the tweeter....the other way around wouldn't likely sell too well!



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#428 - 11/16/01 06:39 PM Re: Bass extension
Ian Offline
President
aficionado

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 808
The basic rule is the flatter the response the better, or better yet the flatter the response in the most possible directions the better. This being said the design goal behind the M80 is to maintain the flat response of all of our speaker models while increasing the overall achievable SPL without distortion. Turning up the volume will achieve this goal up to the point where you reach the maximum SPL attainable by the loudspeaker without distortion. This threshold is raised in the M80 design. Since the roll off in the M80s is not as steep as in the M40s the actual bass performance you will hear in your room will appear deeper with the M80s.

Agreed, the end design goal is paramount but if this can be achieved completely through driver design then a minimal x-over can be used. If the end design goal cannot be achieved completely through driver design then the use of x-over design to force the drivers to the end goal should be also employed. The M3 uses a high pass x-over on the tweeter. The exceptional performance of the M3 is achieved through the design goals themselves and it was possible to achieve these goals through the driver design with minimal x-over components in this model.

I get started at some fairly ridiculous hours of the morning; some claim it is still part of the evening before.

Ian Colquhoun
President & Chief Engineer
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Ian Colquhoun
President & Chief Engineer

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