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#4777 - 08/10/02 12:12 AM JVC FS-5000 30 watt amp be able to power M22Ti?
MrH Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 08/09/02
Posts: 11
Loc: University of Wisconsin-Madiso...
Hi all, I really want this speaker but I can't afford a new amp. I understand the M22Ti's are very efficient and so I'm wondering if my little amp can power it for the time being without fear of damage. As long as I keep the listening to not-high values. thanks!

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#4778 - 08/10/02 12:13 AM Re: JVC FS-5000 30 watt amp be able to power M22Ti?
tinfoilhat Offline
local

Registered: 07/26/02
Posts: 206
Loc: BC
No Problemo

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#4779 - 08/10/02 01:30 AM Re: JVC FS-5000 30 watt amp be able to power M22Ti?
MrH Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 08/09/02
Posts: 11
Loc: University of Wisconsin-Madiso...
wait, itcan't be that easy. I mean this amp is really basic.

What would it sound like? Would I still get a big improvement of sound over the present speakers?
Would a new ampe (cambridge a500) really make all thatdifference?
anyhow I'm ordering in a few days, I hope they still have that cherry wood M22Ti at the factory, I forgot to call and tell them to hold it!
later

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#4780 - 08/10/02 02:10 AM Re: JVC FS-5000 30 watt amp be able to power M22Ti?
tinfoilhat Offline
local

Registered: 07/26/02
Posts: 206
Loc: BC
The speakers you are contemplating buying are amongst the finest of their type available. They will sound worlds better than the ones that came with your JVC, and when you can afford a new receiver, there will be no need to upgrade them at all. You can add a subwoofer (I believe that your present unit has a sub out) and then you will be on your way to a system that you can enjoy and grow with for years.

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#4781 - 08/10/02 02:13 AM Re: JVC FS-5000 30 watt amp be able to power M22Ti?
MrH Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 08/09/02
Posts: 11
Loc: University of Wisconsin-Madiso...
thanks a lot for the reply! Man, I'm getting so excited!The JVC's were the best speaker's I've ever had and to think I am going to get better is very enthralling!

Now on to drooling over some integrated amps, or I can just audition amps pretending I can afford it.
hehehe
MUSIC RULES!

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#4782 - 08/10/02 02:39 AM Re: JVC FS-5000 30 watt amp be able to power M22Ti?
tinfoilhat Offline
local

Registered: 07/26/02
Posts: 206
Loc: BC
PS: Keep the speakers that came with the JVC unit. When the time comes they can become your surrounds.

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#4783 - 08/10/02 02:56 AM Re: JVC FS-5000 30 watt amp be able to power M22Ti?
MrH Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 08/09/02
Posts: 11
Loc: University of Wisconsin-Madiso...
Ha! I never even thought about that! But they are rated at only 20 watts, so I doubt it would work with the 65W amp I'm looking for. Besides, I'm only looking for a two channel integrated. I won't be able to afford a home theatre anytime as I'm just starting medical school soon
Anyhow, maybe I'll give them to charity or something, nothing like a little Miles Davis to incite the soul and awaken the senses.

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#4784 - 08/10/02 11:19 AM Re: JVC FS-5000 30 watt amp be able to power M22Ti?
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3186
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi Mr. H,

Yes, your JVC would be able to drive the M22ti's to reasonable levels in an "average" room--about 2000 to 2500 cubic feet (length x width x height)--as long as you don't try and raise the levels at a party, or think you can recreate 100-dB sound-pressure levels of a live orchestra at peaks. You'd drive the little JVC into clipping and likely burn out the tweeters. Most speakers are damaged by being overdriven by low-powered amplifiers, not by large 100-watt per channel amps.

But a few modest corrections: except for large, horn-loaded speakers (Klipschorns, Tannoys and the like), domestic speakers like the M22ti and other "bookshelf" models are NOT very efficient. They're actually inefficient at converting watts to acoustical output. Paradoxically, big, floorstanding speakers like the Axiom M80ti will play much louder on a few watts input than the M22ti will. As you make a speaker enclosure smaller, and use smaller woofer(s), other things being equal, you have to use MORE power to achieve the same level of loudness as a larger speaker.

The reason giant horn-loaded speakers were popular in the 1940s and 1950s was because amplifiers were tiny--10 watts was typical, but 10 watts can deafen you with a horn-loaded speaker. I built one in 1957 for my audiophile father--our tube power amp was the biggest in town, at 25 watts!. Horns, however, are very colored and inaccurate, and don't produce deep bass (unless they use huge enclosures). Nowadays, amplifier watts are inexpensive, so less efficient speakers with much greater fidelity have become popular. It all began with Edgar Villchur's invention of the "acoustic-suspension" bookshelf speaker around 1960, which allowed a modest-sized speaker to produce very deep bass. But they needed lots of amplifier watts to do it.

And your "20 watt" JVC speakers as surrounds could be easily driven by a 65-watt per channel amp. In a surround mode, it would by very unlikely that more than a few watts per channel would be directed to the surrounds.

Regards,


_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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#4785 - 08/10/02 12:21 PM Re: JVC FS-5000 30 watt amp be able to power M22Ti?
MrH Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 08/09/02
Posts: 11
Loc: University of Wisconsin-Madiso...
Wow, thanks for the informative reply! I've spent hours on this message board and you seem to give solid advice.

One question: Is it more affordable to buy an Integrated Amp, or pre-amp and amp seperate? I need to save up and decide,

I have also read that it is good to look at audiogon, as it would be better buy used, higher quality amps? For example, the A500 is 399 I think, for that price I could get a used integrated that originally cost well over a 1000$!!

Its just I wouldn't know if the amp. pairs well with the M22Ti's, and that could be a BIG problem, right?

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#4786 - 08/11/02 12:09 PM Re: JVC FS-5000 30 watt amp be able to power M22Ti?
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3186
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi,

It's always cheaper to buy an integrated amp than separates, because an integrated uses one power supply (transformer, etc). Separates have to duplicate the power supplies and chassis, which increases the cost.

With modern solid-state (transistor) electronics, virtually any competently designed amp will "pair well" with the M22ti speakers. The M22ti is an 8-ohm speaker, so current-flow and overheating at low impedances (4 ohms and lower) isn't an issue.

Audiogon is a good source for used gear. With reliable brands of amps (NOT vacuum-tube gear), nothing really deteriorates for 10 to 15 years, so as long as the amp hasn't been abused, you should be okay.There are brands that at various times have had quality-control and reliability problems in the past (Carver being one such) but it's easier for me to tell you brands of electronics that in my experience have been very reliable over the long term. Here are some, by no means all, that come to mind: Bryston, Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer, Rotel, older Onkyo separates and receivers.

Regards,
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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