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#48339 - 07/07/04 03:39 PM Re: I had a little "whine" with LOTR: ROTK
ringmir Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/03/04
Posts: 619
Loc: boston
well, since I've gone so far being the "ridiculous police" today, I can't help it...you slipped an extra 'i' in there john... And yes they are loooooooooooooong...but being a fan of the books, I am very glad they are. Every little thing that gets cut out to make them as *short* as they are, we sorely miss.
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#48340 - 07/07/04 03:58 PM Re: I had a little "whine" with LOTR: ROTK
Huffer Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/06/03
Posts: 70
Loc: Winnipeg
"i didnt go see a single one in the theater simply for that reason. i, along with millions of others, cant sit in a theater for 3-4 hours, just cant do it"

How did the movies make so much money if "millions" of people can't sit down for three hours to watch them?

If your take is that they are too long, fine, that is your opinion. But to me and many others they are not too long. If the choice is to have a longer movie to do the books justice then so be it. If he had to make 5 three hour movies I wouldn't mind. If that's what it took.

Would you have rather he produced it with the first company (I forget which) that only wanted two 2 hour movies? I know I'm glad he didn't.

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#48341 - 07/07/04 04:22 PM Re: I had a little "whine" with LOTR: ROTK
bigjohn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 3016
Loc: San Angelo, TX
ringmir- the evil xtra "i".. slipped it in there on ya..

i can dig the position peter jackson was in.. trying to put on film, and be a fair representation to the books, was almost an impossible task.. but, i think its fair to say, that the majority of the people that saw these movies, never read these books.. so, for those people, they would have never missed the movie being cut down a little, cause they would never know what they were missing.. but, jackson being a true fan of the series, wanted to be as true to the books as he could. and as ya'll have mentioned, he still had to cut stuff out, and the movies were still loooooooooong.. you said that the parts that were cut out, "we sorely miss".. yes, "we" as in the people that read the books.. the die-hard fans.. and i have no prob with that. but like i was saying, the majority of people that went to the movies never read the books..

do i have a point, not really.. i just think they are long.. there good movies, i like them.. i just think they are long.. quit backin me into a corner here people.

bigjohn
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#48342 - 07/07/04 04:48 PM Re: I had a little "whine" with LOTR: ROTK
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16268
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
In reply to:

The Aragorn/mouth of Sauron scene...


Is it just me, or does that sound like something Mr. Bear would enjoy watching?
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#48343 - 07/07/04 04:49 PM Re: I had a little "whine" with LOTR: ROTK
Capn_Pickard Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/09/04
Posts: 1056
Loc: Arlington, VA (NOVA)
Yeah, yeah. They were long. Get over it.

The EE's are really only for fans of the movie who were willing to sit on their asses til they got numb teh first time around, only to want more when the credits rolled.

The point I was trying to make (because I too agree that they are long) is that the movie is about a journey, a huge, monumental journey in which characters ACTUALLY DEVELOP. Frodo becomes something he is not -slowly degrading into a slave to the ring. Sam, the slave, becomes a hero (samwise the brave). Aragorn goes from a nomadic loner to king of all men. Merry and Pippen finally leave the shire to face their fears. Both Legolas and Gimli face their prejudices and come out the most unlikely of best friends. All of this takes time. But at the same time, there are an incredible number of other characters which serve other roles, and a tremendous amount of action that has to take place to get characters from one place to another, etc., etc.,

What the EE's allowed PJAckson to do was to slow down and take soem time when the story and the characters needed it, rather than cut those quiet moments for fear that the audience would fall asleep or lose interest. In the EE's, he knows he's got us, and he can take the time to let a character laugh or smile or have a side diversion that is not entirely related to the plot (to show us something more about the character). These things make the movie, in my opinion, better. It also allows the movie to have a more natural pacing, which is what I meant in the beginning, rather than the unnatural editting that needs to be doen in order to please the masses (which they apparently did very well too.)

Anyway - it's just my opinion. Yours may vary.

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#48344 - 07/07/04 05:15 PM Re: I had a little "whine" with LOTR: ROTK
bigjohn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 3016
Loc: San Angelo, TX
cool man, i can dig it.. trust me, its nothin personal.. the quote just made me laugh..

my wife and i actually just watched the 3rd in the series this past weekend, and liked it.. although, it did take all of sunday afternoon, and we had to stop for an hour to make dinner.. but, it was a fitting end to the series, and i was pleased to finally get closure.. with that said, will i choose to watch the EE versions, not a chance..

bigjohn
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#48345 - 07/07/04 05:26 PM Re: I had a little "whine" with LOTR: ROTK
ringmir Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/03/04
Posts: 619
Loc: boston
The way I read this is...John doesn't want to sit in a movie seat that long. Honestly? I can't blame ya. Those things are uncomfortable, and if you get a lousy seat your neck gets all twisted around.

When I said "we sorely miss" I most certainly meant us serious fans. I know the majority of the audience never read the books, and probably won't go out and do so (although a lot have to be sure.) But considering what was left in the movies, not much could have been removed without seriously compromising the story line. There were only a few entire concepts removed from the movies. (Like Tom Bombadil in the first, Scouring of the shire in the third.) And a large portion of the second book was pushed into the third movie to even out the timeline (given that the Scouring of the shire was removed, which is practically half of the third book.) This resulted in a much less suspenseful ending of the second movie than the second book provides. But it also made the third movie more exciting than the third book. All in all, I say he did the best to appease both worlds. Any less movie and he would have met scathing reviews across the board for cutting so much out that he decimated the story itself, any more movie and people would have shot themselves in the theater (the non-die hard fans).
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[black]-"The further we go and older we grow, the more we know, the less we show."[/black]

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#48346 - 07/07/04 05:34 PM Re: I had a little "whine" with LOTR: ROTK
bigjohn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 3016
Loc: San Angelo, TX
agreed, totally!!

BTW- what is scouring of the shire?? short and sweet, what could possibly take half of the third book??

just curious.. and no, i will not read these books.. i cant read big books. i am more of a short story, newspaper, magazine type reader..short, sweet, and simple.. i guess i am primitive that way

bigjohn
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EXCUSE ME, ARE YOU THE SINGING BUSH??

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#48347 - 07/07/04 05:50 PM Re: I had a little "whine" with LOTR: ROTK
ringmir Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/03/04
Posts: 619
Loc: boston
Ok as condensed as possible...

The whole reason Frodo leaves with the elves is because when he returns to the shire it has changed, and he can't go back to his old way of life. What ends up taking the second half of the book is really Aragorn's wedding, the whole return home, scouring of the shire, and wrap-up with Sam becoming mayor etc etc...

What happens in short is: men, under the command of "Sharky" take over the Shire. When the hobbits return they find that they are not allowed in, and that there's a whole system of sherrifs and whatnot that have made up a whole long list of "rules". And essentially life pretty much sucks.

Turns out that Sharky is Saruman. Treebeard had let him go from the tower (in the books, Gandalf breaks Saruman's staff and he is thereafter deemed powerless. Saruman's true inate power in the books is a persuasive voice like that seen in Grima wormtongue, which he retains to a lessened extent.) He decided to go to the Shire, mostly to make Frodo's life miserable because he can (at least, that's the impression given). So the hobbits, two of whom are quite large compared to normal hobbits from drinking the ent's drink (which isn't in the normal versions of the movies at all), proceed to retake the Shire. Grima it turns out is still Saruman's assistant, and at the very end when insulted by Saruman after the hobbits have reclaimed the Shire, kills him in a fit of rage and then gets shot by hobbits himself.

This all really takes up quite a bit of real estate page-wise. It is interesting, in context of the rest of the story, because it wraps up the story with a much less "hollywood" ending, and serves to reinforce the point that one can never go back to an old way of life. Without it, Frodo's departure seems contrived, if it makes any sense at all.

Anyway, that is a very condensed and butchered recount of what happens.
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[black]-"The further we go and older we grow, the more we know, the less we show."[/black]

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#48348 - 07/07/04 11:54 PM Re: I had a little "whine" with LOTR: ROTK
INANE Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 1660
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
In reply to:


I don't think the length of the movie has much to do with it. I think the quality of the movie does. Anyone who complains about the length is copping out.




I thought they could have edited out at least 1/2 hr per film and they would have been better because of it. I was groaning thru each movie praying for the end. Now I could sit thru an entire season of Babylon 5 with no problems.

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