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#49562 - 06/17/04 03:57 PM axiom vs rocket
proggy_99 Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 26
I have been reading over at The Spot a little lately, and noticed the glowing reviews that the Onix Rockets have been getting lately (av123.com). Has anyone seen any good comparisons of the axiom vs the rocket? I am THIS close to ordering the M60/VP150/QS8 set! I know you guys are obivously axiom fans, just looking to see what you guys have to say about the rockets, that seem to be similar in price if I remember correctly.

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#49563 - 06/17/04 04:18 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
WhatFurrer Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/02/03
Posts: 692
Loc: Round Rock, Texas
See my response in your Axiom thread on the SPOT...

WhatFurrer
_________________________
"Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup..."

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#49564 - 06/17/04 04:29 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
proggy_99 Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 26
this thread?
http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=601944&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=365&fpart=1

Is one of those responses yours, or is there another thread? That is not my thread, really =) My sign on there is some iteration of proggy_99 as well.

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#49565 - 06/17/04 04:35 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8292
Loc: Tacoma
Do a forum search. There have been LOTS of discussions, many of them less than pretty.

Axiom owners like their Axioms. Rocket owners like their Rockets. Only your ears can decide what your ears like.

I had a couple of philosophical problems with Onix. First, I wanted a three-way speaker. There are going to be smart people that tell me it does not make any kind of scientifically-proven, quantifiable difference whether a speaker uses a midrange or not. They are probably right. And it was my money. The Rocket line costs considerably more for my preferred combination.

Second, I wanted to support jobs in North America. While I understand that some of the Axiom components are manufactured overseas to their specifications, the speakers are designed and assembled in Canada. Far from being enticed, I'm actually appalled that part of the Onix pitch includes touting use of exotic wood veneers from the far corners of the globe. Many people are seduced by the real wood on the Rockets; I can't help but "see" a Chinese factory when I look at them. When I look at my Axioms, I see quality, design excellence, and real people doing good work in an authentic community on my side of the ocean.

I'm sure the Rockets are fine speakers. I bought Axioms and have no regrets. YMMV.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#49566 - 06/17/04 04:45 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
proggy_99 Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 26
good arguement Tom, and sound thinking. I had did a search here and did not see rockets ever mentioned, so I figured I would ask. I am pretty sold on the axioms as it is.

Now to decide between an HSU or a SVS sub. I have wanted a SVS cylinder since I saw it the first time almost a year ago, but I understand the HSU sub is pretty nice as well. I am breaking the budget on the great room in our new house as it is. The wife and I agreed we would fill the other rooms with old furniture, but the great room would be all new and MATCHING! We have always pieced together furniture and put up with non-matched stuff for the last 8 years. So the great room pricetag, including furniture and audio/visual equipment is probably going to land in around $10k 80 So I am trying to make it easier on my wife by making some good buys

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#49567 - 06/17/04 05:15 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
WhatFurrer Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/02/03
Posts: 692
Loc: Round Rock, Texas
Proggy,

Sorry...been one of those days. The "response" I was referring to was this one.

My username is the same...

Maybe it will help solidify your decision...

Sorry for the confusion...

WhatFurrer
_________________________
"Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup..."

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#49568 - 06/17/04 05:26 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
spiffnme Offline
axiomite

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 5214
Loc: Los Angeles
In reply to:

Now to decide between an HSU or a SVS sub.



Wow...Axiom vs Rocket AND Hsu vs. SVS in the same thread by the same guy.

Duck and cover!!!!!


_________________________
"A nation cannot prosper long, when it favors only the prosperous." -President Barack Obama

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#49569 - 06/17/04 05:29 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17783
Loc: NoVA
Wow a Hsu thread and spiff didn't even take the opportunity to recommend them!
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#49570 - 06/17/04 06:59 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
proggy_99 Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 26
no worries WhatFurrer, good response on the other thread btw and just reinforces what I am leaning towards. I am about confident enough at this point to risk not liking them and using the 30 day return if it came to that, though I do not expect it will.

and yeah on the svs vs hsu. Not really looking for more comparisons, there are plenty already. Just boils down to making the call on one or the other =)

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#49571 - 06/17/04 07:12 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6251
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
In reply to:

svs vs hsu. Not really looking for more comparisons, there are plenty already. Just boils down to making the call on one or the other =)


Trust me! You can't miss. It's a win/win decision.
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#49572 - 06/18/04 09:07 AM Re: axiom vs rocket
bigjohn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 3016
Loc: San Angelo, TX
definitely, flip a coin, and you will get a great sub either way. i myself, crave the SVS water heater series. i have a corner in my den that a 20-39 would fit perfect in.

i must keep the dream alive!

bigjohn
_________________________
EXCUSE ME, ARE YOU THE SINGING BUSH??

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#49573 - 06/18/04 12:29 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
Moab Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 26
Well just yesterday i bought the Axiom 60's,vp150,Qs8's and a SVS PB2 sub. I looked at Hsu and Rockets also and its really hard to decide when you cant listen to them for your self. You might like more "highs" then others or more bass responsive etc..... So I have been reading the news letter from Alan for over a year he sends out every month and from what everyone says you cant really go wrong with either but I have a "feeling" I will like the Axioms better, and hey you have 30 days to try them. Just Do It!

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#49574 - 06/18/04 01:50 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
proggy_99 Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 26
"just do it!" indeed!

earlier this morning I put in my order for the M60/QS8/VP150 set and went straight to SVS and put in the order for the 20-39 pci water heater =) Getting here monday will be the Denon 2803 to drive it all. Took a bit of convincing the wife to accept the fact that the 3'+ cylinder was a better choice than the "ugly" box.....even the slightly less cost did not do much to persuade. So I had to pull out the big guns and she is at Lazarus happily charging away as I write this!

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#49575 - 06/18/04 02:17 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
bigjohn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 3016
Loc: San Angelo, TX
LAZARUS??

i take it that is your local department store??

best way for you to spend money, let her spend money too!!

bigjohn
_________________________
EXCUSE ME, ARE YOU THE SINGING BUSH??

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#49576 - 06/18/04 03:33 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8292
Loc: Tacoma
Way to go, Proggy! You're going to be really happy!
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#49577 - 06/18/04 08:33 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
Ray3 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 2842
Loc: Rochester, NY
proggy, I didn't mention this in the other thread, but the 20-39 is BIG. You really won't appreciate that until you uncrate it. Even as big as it is, it just blends into the background after a bit. The listening/feeling experience will get anyone over the hump. As an aside, I have mine semi-hidden behind a chair. No downside on it's performance sitting there.

I'll make the assumption that an SPL meter and Avia disk are somewhere in your future plans. Once you get the calibration done, give yourself a treat and play the sub sweep tone. It is amazing going from listening to feeling. At 20hz, there is lotsa feeling to be experienced!

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#49578 - 06/20/04 09:23 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
proggy_99 Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 26
i know I pretty much need the spl meter and avia disk, but have not really looked into getting them or how to use them yet.

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#49579 - 07/02/04 07:21 AM Re: axiom vs rocket
mobomofo Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 06/25/04
Posts: 27
Loc: Maine
I'm debating between these two companies, myself.

What do you mean by "forward" vs "laid-back"? Does this mean "exaggerated" vs "natural"? Or "loud" vs "flat"?

Do you think the bookshelves from Axiom would be a good representation of their tower speakers? My idea is to purchase bookshelves from both companies, audition them, make the winner my temporary computer speakers (no room for surrounds in living room, atm), and send back the "loser."

Why audition using bookshelves? Shipping costs :/
_________________________
--MoboMoFo

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#49580 - 07/02/04 07:37 AM Re: axiom vs rocket
spiffnme Offline
axiomite

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 5214
Loc: Los Angeles
Yes, the M22ti is a good comparison of the M60 and M80. They'll have a very similar tone, with the towers of course having a larger soundstage, and more depth.

The M3ti is often compared with the M40 and M50's.


_________________________
"A nation cannot prosper long, when it favors only the prosperous." -President Barack Obama

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#49581 - 07/02/04 01:05 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
mobomofo Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 06/25/04
Posts: 27
Loc: Maine
Excellent!

I wasn't able to find anyone within 2 states of me to audition some Axioms, so I think this is my only choice... aside from making a blind decision
_________________________
--MoboMoFo

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#49582 - 07/02/04 01:43 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
bigjohn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 3016
Loc: San Angelo, TX
i would bet 1/3, or even more of the axiom owners on this site didnt get a chance to audition the speakers before buying them.. i didnt..

all of us figured if we didnt like them, we had 30 days to send them back. i dont know very many, if any, that did!!

bigjohn
_________________________
EXCUSE ME, ARE YOU THE SINGING BUSH??

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#49583 - 07/02/04 01:58 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
mobomofo Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 06/25/04
Posts: 27
Loc: Maine
My main concern is how the highs, lows, and mid-range are handled... as well as how the center and mains blend together.

What I noticed right off with Vienna Acoustics is that the center and mains were, IMO, seamless. I have never heard that before with home theater speakers. I'm hoping Axiom can recreate or surpass that =P
_________________________
--MoboMoFo

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#49584 - 07/02/04 03:22 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
BBIBH Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 1045
Loc: Canada
Physical size of speakers does not directly equate to a larger soundstage and greater depth - assuming that we are discussing relatively decent designed speakers in the comparison.
_________________________
Regards,

Mike

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#49585 - 07/02/04 03:33 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
mobomofo Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 06/25/04
Posts: 27
Loc: Maine
It typically does.

Can it be engineered differently? Absolutely! However, speaker engineering is handled by picking 2 of these 3...

1) high quality
2) small size
3) low cost


Edited by mobomofo (07/02/04 03:35 PM)
_________________________
--MoboMoFo

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#49586 - 07/15/04 12:01 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
snakeyes Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/13/04
Posts: 828
Loc: Newburgh, NY
i am planning on buying the 60/150/qs8 in the near future and was also going to buy the axiom sub but i see a lot of people going with another manufacture for the sub why is that? quality or price or both?
_________________________
------------------------------------------------
Leave the gun, Take the canolis.

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#49587 - 07/15/04 12:12 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
bigjohn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 3016
Loc: San Angelo, TX
its actually a little of both..

dont get me wrong, the axiom makes good subs.. there is no problem with them.. but, it is widely considered that the SVS and HSU subs are just a little better.. plus, for the price, you can actually get a more powerful, better sounding sub with the SVS and HSU brands.

one main drawbacks with the SVS or HSU's, is that you dont have as many custom finishes choices.. thats whats really cool with the axioms.. you can get the sub in the same finish as the rest of your speakers.

but i just dont want you thinkin that the axiom subs are bad.. if you had to put it on a scale from 1-10..

$5000 dollar velodyne is a 10..
$600 dollar SVS or HSU is a 9..
$500 dollar axiom is an 8..
my $215 dollar cerwin vega is about a 6..
the little sub in the sony 'HT box set' is about a 2..
a cardboard box with a hamster in it is a 1.. maybe..

hope that clears it up a little..

bigjohn

_________________________
EXCUSE ME, ARE YOU THE SINGING BUSH??

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#49588 - 07/15/04 12:40 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17783
Loc: NoVA
I'd switch the bottom two. Gimme a hamster in a box over a HTIB sub any day.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#49589 - 07/15/04 01:38 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
snakeyes Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/13/04
Posts: 828
Loc: Newburgh, NY
Thanks,
would you recomend a 8" or 12" hamster?
i also demo'd the outlaw audio sub last month at the home audio show in nyc and liked the sound of that. Dr. Hsu helped in the design. Its $499 if you buy 2 but then i would have convince my buddy he needs a sub upgrade.

_________________________
------------------------------------------------
Leave the gun, Take the canolis.

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#49590 - 07/15/04 01:57 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17783
Loc: NoVA
I prefer the 10-12 inch hamster. The 8s are too small unless you use two, and the 15s and above are just sort of floppy. What's interesting is when you use a 8-10 inch hamster with a 8-10 inch rat. Then you can get some real power. Of course, you have to work hard at optimizing the box. Habitrail makes some useful equipment for this.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#49591 - 07/15/04 02:18 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
bigjohn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 3016
Loc: San Angelo, TX
the hamster sub??

brings new meaning to the 'sub crawl' placement theory, eh??

bigjohn
_________________________
EXCUSE ME, ARE YOU THE SINGING BUSH??

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#49592 - 07/15/04 02:37 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
Capn_Pickard Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/09/04
Posts: 1056
Loc: Arlington, VA (NOVA)
In reply to:

I prefer the 10-12 inch hamster




/Richard Gere joke avoided.

Whew, that was close.

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#49593 - 07/15/04 02:42 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17783
Loc: NoVA
Yeah, I realized the danger of that post a little while after I made it...
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#49594 - 07/15/04 02:46 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
bigjohn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 3016
Loc: San Angelo, TX
arent urban legends funny!! we are all from diff parts of the country, but we know exactly what we are talkin about.. at least i think we do??

bigjohn
_________________________
EXCUSE ME, ARE YOU THE SINGING BUSH??

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#49595 - 07/15/04 02:52 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16282
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
You were safe from the start. It's gerbils that you should be worried about.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#49596 - 07/15/04 03:15 PM Re: axiom vs rocket
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
mobomofo:

"Laid-back" is a polite term for "dull," "muffled", "subdued" and "recessed". It describes midrange and treble output that has a dip or depression vs. linear and accurate; another term for a speaker that is detailed is "presence, " meaning that a vocalist or solo intrument seems very present in the room.

Vocals and lots of midrange sounds heard on a "laid-back" speaker will sound farther away, less clear, and lacking detail. Because they have less midrange energy, the soundstage won't seem as wide, deep and transparent.

"Forward" speakers typically have a boost or hump in the midrange and treble, which willl tend to make vocals and brasses too detailed, even shrill and strident (Klipsch) and fatiguing over longer listening periods.

I've not heard the Rockets, so I can't comment.

Regards,
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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#49597 - 07/16/04 12:29 AM Re: axiom vs rocket
INANE Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 1668
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
I read somewhere that at some point the tweeters were changed on some of the Rockets. Perhaps some of their dullness lables are from the older tweeters?

Doesn't matter, my decision came down to Axiom vs Rocket, and I've decided Axiom.

_________________________
-Ben
HT v2.0 !
HT v1.0

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