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#53249 - 09/03/04 11:46 PM Re: Body count
BigWill Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
Ringmir, should I infer from your post above that you feel private universities provide a "better" education than schools like UCLA or Berkeley?
I'll take the real world gains made by those UC schools to the old world cronyism of the Ivy League anyday. And despite rhetoric to the contrary these excellent schools are extremely affordable by comparison (if you can get in).

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#53250 - 09/04/04 12:11 AM Re: OT: politics
donaldekelly Offline
local

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 274
Loc: Washington, DC
Another more or less Democrat chiming in here. Good discussion for the most part. Must be our common love of good sound and Axiom speakers.

I am reading to learn - it is an interesting way to hear both sides. I do have a few bits of input.

"1) I DON'T believe that abortions later than the first trimester should be allowed."

I think it is hard to say when life begins for me - until about 2 months - then it is definitely a person.

"3) We'll just disagree on this one. We did not HAVE TO take out Iraq."

Agreed - why not "take out" Sudan, etc.?

"7) I guess I like living on the edge. I'm also an athiest, so if I'm wrong on that one, I'm really screwed, aren't I?"

Maybe more to the point - it doesn't seem right to forbid someone to have the choice when it is pretty unclear (the crux of the issue) when life actually begins. If the right really wants to make abortions stop - why don't they really push their own folks to provide good alternatives? They (used to be "we") are much more inclined to try to pass a law that is not going to get passed for years to come than to start up real alternatives. (Granted even Jerry Falwell has started places for "unwed mothers" but the options like this are still few and make the pro-life movement seem hypocritical).
_________________________
M22s, QS4s, M2 center, Hsu stf-1.

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#53251 - 09/04/04 12:21 AM Re: Body count
ringmir Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/03/04
Posts: 619
Loc: boston
UCLA and Berkeley are outstanding schools, as are many other state schools. But it's almost never an option for a low income family to send their child to school across the country for school. Scrounging up money for a winter vacation plane ticket may be impossible for some of these students. A few friends of mine in school stayed with me over fall and spring breaks because they lived far away and couldn't afford to go home. And what about the kids who work part time through school to help pay the bills back home? Or need to save every penny they can on room and board by living at home while in school?

There are programs like "work study" that would help too (without being a "freebie"), the problem is that the government caps the wage a work study student can earn rather than paying up to a fixed amount regardless of the student's wage. So the government will give say, 3k in a work study grant, which then counts against other potential grants, but the student never earns the work study money because they can get a different job that pays better. The cap isn't very high either, when I was in school it was around $8 / hour, only a fraction of which the government pays anyway. Granted this makes the student an attractive worker because they cost the school less money, but then these kids get funnelled into the lower paying jobs at the school. And what's worse, when these kids with work study jobs earn as much as their work study grant permits the government to subsidise, they lose their job because the university figures they should go find another work study kid. I never used my work study grants because I got a job as a TA that paid too much, but damned if it didn't count against my eligability for *all* grant money, even non-federal.
_________________________
[black]-"The further we go and older we grow, the more we know, the less we show."[/black]

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#53252 - 09/04/04 03:10 AM Re: Just because I'm a pacifist
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16267
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
In reply to:

By the left, he has been accused of...

1. Planning 911 himself.
2. Not preventing 911.
3. Taking away our freedoms when he tries to keep a repeat of 911 from happening.
4. And then there are the websites.. "Whyihatebush.com" "killthepresident.com"

If you want to call ME names, fine. I guess more tolerance from the left...


The left this, the left that. Lumping people who happen to hold beliefs that are to left of yours with the conspiracy theorists who believe Bush planned 911 is completely ridiculous! Do you actually think we believe that crap?

Calling people who disagree with President Bush's policies "self-loathing Americans" is also ridiculous. I don't need to support the president to know I live in amazing country. I don't need to agree with the actions of our government to feel good about myself. Don't sell youself short and rely on that crutch of an argument.

And when I said your questions were rhetorical, I simply meant that it's plainly obvious you already know the answers to them. Unless I'm in a classroom, I don't normally respond to individuals who ask questions to which they already know the answers.

So, who's calling you names?
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#53253 - 09/04/04 03:18 AM Re: Just because I'm a pacifist
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16267
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
In reply to:

As far as his not handling it well... He has. We have not been attacked again.


Since I started keeping a clove of garlic in my back pocket I haven't seen any vampires.

The lack of an attack on our homeland is not proof that we are safer. The country felt pretty safe on 9/10/01, didn't it?
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#53254 - 09/04/04 03:22 AM Re: Body count
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16267
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
In reply to:

...should I infer from your post above that you feel private universities provide a "better" education than schools like UCLA or Berkeley?


Hey, isn't Berkeley where all the Marxist professors congregate? (sorry, I'm full of zingers tonight...)

I'm a UC Berkeley grad and got a couple Federal grants that helped me through, but I mostly depended on work-study and loans cover the majority of my expenses.

Oh, BTW, for out of state individuals, Berkeley and UCLA are about as expensive a s private school.


Edited by pmbuko (09/04/04 03:24 AM)
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#53255 - 09/04/04 09:32 AM Re: Body count
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
PM - THis IS a debate of the "lefts's" argument vs. the "right's" ... and the left in this country has made all the accusations I listed.

The other half of the rhetorical question is that the person being asked also knows the answer. So, yes, YOU also know that every Democrat also supported the policy in Iraq, believed in the amount of WMD's available... witnessed some of the rape rooms (I got to see a British lady from the House of Commonds who had visisted Iraq to oppose the war, SHE was a strong proponent after she was taken through a rape room, and had seen what had occured) ... and the many terrorist camps they had operating in Iraq...

As far as you vampire analogy, in order for it to "hold water" you must have actually been attacked by a vampire... nice! ...
_________________________
Remember, this is a HOBBY

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#53256 - 09/04/04 09:55 AM Re: Body count
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
I have been reading up some on the situation in the Sudan. Arab militia has been attacking what looks like defenseless Black Africans (I think they ARE pretty much defenseless, but used looks lke to be safe). These "militia" (I call them terrorists) have killed upwards of 30,000 people, and 1.2 million people are homeless... driven from their villages by the terrorists... these terrorists are well armed, while the Black Africans are not. Thus, we have a pretty nasty bloodbath occuring.

Is this a decent summary ?
_________________________
Remember, this is a HOBBY

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#53257 - 09/04/04 11:10 AM Re: Just because I'm a pacifist
littleb Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 1235
Loc: Moorhead, Minnesota/US
I hate to say it, since I don't want to upset you any more than you probably are, but I can't really help myself. . . you forgot bribing the Supreme Court to put the final touches on a stolen election which was brought about with the aid of Katherine Harris and Governor brother Jeb Bush of Florida. Now remember when you read this, that it is a pathetic attempt at political humour. Smile, please.

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#53258 - 09/04/04 11:19 AM Re: Body count
BigWill Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
There's no shortage of Marxists at UCLA, either.

I just read in todays paper that the UC student's education (California residents and illegal immigrants apparently, but not folks from any other US state) costs the gov't $8500 a year. What is tuition now ? about $2k? Pretty damn good deal IMO, but I suppose the gov't should go ahead and pay for it all, plus books, meals, lodging, plane tickets home, cash for beer and clubbing, free bicycles, what else am I missing? Oh yeah, protest supplies - it ain't cheap making all those "Bush is a terrorist" posters. And they need a ration of flags for flag burning demonstrations - might as well have the taxpayers buy those too.

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