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#53899 - 10/17/04 08:57 PM Re: OT: Politics
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16283
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
In reply to:

For one to oppose the efforts of our countrymen as they are in harms way, one must absolutely be right about the war being a mistake. If you're not right... what would you call it?


Kerry does not oppose the efforts of our countrymen as they are in harms way. He commends their efforts. Kerry opposes the President, who is not and has never been in harm's way.

Calling a leader's actions into question does not tarnish those who MUST serve obediently under him.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#53900 - 10/17/04 09:12 PM Re: OT: Politics
BigWill Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
"He trusts in his faith to lead him through, but you also need to care about facts, which he does not. He is putting the entire country at risk with only his faith to see us through. Doesn't that scare you?"

The situation in Iraq is actually looking pretty good, IMO. They have what - 125,000 Iraqi troops trained? We're moving on Fallujah, which indicates to me that the Iraqis are ready to take over control of security operations after the battle. I'm guessing the assault on Fallujah was delayed because they knew it would be an ugly scene for American troops to hold long term. The Iraqi forces must be ready now to hold the town afterwards.

Bush isn't making all of these decisions. But, whoever is has really shown tactical brilliance, a strong desire to limit US casualties, an intent to minimize civilian casualties and win hearts and minds. Same goes for the war in Afghanistan.

Ask the Russians about trying to take over Afghanistan. Ask the Iranians about fighting the Iraqis. What the military has accomplished is no small feat. Whoever is calling the shots needs to stay there, IMO.

And no, I'm not anymore scared with Bush at the helm. We have always been at risk. We grew up with the threat of Soviet missiles raining down at any time (my commie sister had me really freaked out about that stuff when I was little). I'd be more concerned if we showed weakness now.

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#53901 - 10/17/04 10:48 PM Re: OT: Politics
BigWill Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
I had to drop that last post in a hurry because the baby woke up from his nap. I wasted his whole nap up here on the computer - stupid, stupid, stupid!

"Kerry does not oppose the efforts of our countrymen as they are in harms way. He commends their efforts. Kerry opposes the President, who is not and has never been in harm's way.

Calling a leader's actions into question does not tarnish those who MUST serve obediently under him."

In general, the President has not been in harms way, but his trip to Iraq at Xmas (or was it Thanksgiving?) was pretty cool. The troops sure seemed to get a charge out of it.

Kerry is careful in his speech to not belittle our soldiers (at least in this war ), but he certainly has denegrated the Iraqis and the soldiers our allies have contributed. Moreover, his criticisms of the way it has been waged IS an attack on our military. Bush didn't decide how many troops we would have there, Bush didn't decide which troops would be used where, Bush doesn't select their missions, their areas of operation, etc... A President would be a fool to think he knows better than his experienced generals and military advisors.

And, IMO, criticisms of the reasons for going to war (criticisms of Bush) undermines our efforts, puts the troops at greater risk and negatively effects their morale.

Assuming Kerry is elected, is he going to hang tough if things get nasty in "Bush's War"? I would expect a hard push by the terrorists to test his resolve. Kerry might just withdraw as he has stated publicly to everyone - including the terrorists - that this is a mistake. And he always has the convenient excuse that Bush started it.

If Bush is re-elected, the insurgents and terrorists know they're in deep do-do.

Also, Bush has the backing of the military personnel by a ratio of 4:1.



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#53902 - 10/17/04 11:59 PM Re: OT: Politics
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16283
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
In reply to:

A President would be a fool to think he knows better than his experienced generals and military advisors.


Would experienced generals send troops into the arena without weapons or proper equipment? http://www.kwtx.com/news/headlines/1029996.html This speaks to there being not enough American troops to properly win the war in Iraq. Since there aren'yt any more American troops to spare, don't you think it would be great to have the support of other countries willing to send theirs? If this war is right, then surely we could have convinced other countries of that.

Of course the military supports the President. That doesn't mean they think he's managing the war well, though. http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/889189.cms
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#53903 - 10/18/04 01:13 AM Re: OT: Politics
BigWill Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
You're reachin'.

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#53904 - 10/18/04 03:16 AM Re: OT: Politics
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
PMB writes:

"If this war is right, then surely we could have convinced other countries of that."

Only if those countries are 'right,' pmb. The post bipolar world is very different. Europe doesn't need us to protect them from the Soviet Union anymore. France and Schroeder's Germany are intent on establishing Europe as a counterweight to the US. France has a historical interest in frustrating US policy. France made its peace with terrorism in the 80's. France profited from the Oil for Food program, stole the food out of babies' mouths, while Sadam Hussein starved Iraq's children. France sold Iraq weapons even after the commencement of hostilities. Do you think the Arab world would go to war with us to fight the monstrous Ba'athist regime? Saddam Hussein was a hero to the Arabs. Do you think the largely Muslim non-aligned nations would go to war with us to fight terrorism?

Is that the test for US policy now? Do we require the endorsement of these moral imbeciles to validate our foreign policy? See if we can get France and the Arabs to help us fight terrorism and monstrous regimes in search of WMD before we protect ourselves with force?

The issue is whether we are a sovereign nation. You criticize our morality and national leadership for deposing Sadam Hussein and the Ba'athist Nazis. I find it interesting.

I saw an interview the other day with this fella who is investigating mass graves in Iraq. He found hundreds of skulls with the tops removed. It puzzled him. Then he interviewed survivors. The Ba'athists sawed off the tops of some people's skulls and dripped acid on their brains. Made for great fun. Rape was a national policy and sport for the ruling class. How many hundreds of thousands of people did Saddam Hussein murder? But hey, PMB, we're the bad guys, right? Better get Kerry in there so he can talk with the French about helping us out. Someone is dreaming.
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#53905 - 10/18/04 11:16 AM Re: OT: Politics
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16283
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
In reply to:

blah blah ... blah blah blah ... blah blah ...


Hmmmm. I can't say I agree with you.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#53906 - 10/18/04 01:02 PM Re: OT: Politics
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
I looked forward to your response to the obvious truths of my post. I take your post to be an admission that you cannot make a factual or rational response.
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#53907 - 10/18/04 01:59 PM Re: OT: Politics
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16283
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Sorry. I just posted the first thing that came to mind. I usually don't do that, as you know, but I've been wanting to do it for so long I couldn't resist. Consider this the catch-all. It won't happen again.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#53908 - 10/18/04 09:58 PM Re: OT: Politics
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16283
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
This is totally irrelevant, but I thought it was funny:


_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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