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#85700 - 03/17/05 01:53 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Jimmy Offline
regular

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 8
Wow...if Axiom owners are like you in your response then....will...I'll let your replys speak for themselves.


Have a nice day.

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#85701 - 03/17/05 02:10 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
curtis Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 1501
Loc: Manhattan Beach, CA
Jimmy....I'm not an Axiom owner, but I've heard them and know enough to bet that system was not setup correctly when you heard it.

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#85702 - 03/17/05 02:34 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16267
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Hmmm. There's only one person I know of in the bay area who has that system. I'll have to ask him if he's taken the time to properly calibrate his system.

If the speakers really did sound awful to you, then there HAS to be something amiss in their setup. He did JUST get the Halos, so I'm sure things aren't totally dialed in yet.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#85703 - 03/17/05 02:37 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
I'm not here to sell speakers. Hell, even Alan who works for the company doesn't shill.

If you're in CA and you listened to that exact system, that we've all be hearing Tharkun talk about for who know how long now (I'm assuming here, maybe someone else is running the same exact setup, amps and all)... and as far as I know, he STILL hasn't done any final positioning or calibration... were they still in the boxes when you demoed them?

Bren R.
edit - ah, hell, sniped by Peter.


Edited by BrenR (03/17/05 02:38 AM)

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#85704 - 03/17/05 02:45 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Haoleb Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 1488
Loc: Maine
He didnt like them so what. Theyre not for everyone. Hey i dont like picasso, who cares. Maybe it wasnt setup right or maybe he just didnt like the way it sounded. Im not sure why he decided to post that in the first place but we cant convert everyone!
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#85705 - 03/17/05 02:50 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Tharkun Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 1039
Loc: Tracy, California
Jimmy -
Sorry to hear you left here after two hours with such a negative feeling, as I had mentioned on the phone when you called Monday, nothing has been calibrated or set up beyond running wires/cables, and I assumed you would take that into consideration upon auditioning the Axioms. It late, and I'm not going to post more than that till I'm fully functional, by morning I will make a more detailed post as to my 'side' of the issue so all can make a fair evalaution about your Axiom audition here on Tuesday.
_________________________
ROCK 'N' HAXIOM Theater

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#85706 - 03/17/05 03:07 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
MiniRock Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 494
Loc: Napavine, WA
Looking foward to hearng the facts Tharkun.
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Mini Rock's Lounge.com

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#85707 - 03/17/05 06:12 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Tharkun Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 1039
Loc: Tracy, California
Jimmy -
I'm not going to get into a post war over my system, its my investment, I'm happy with it, and I have lived long enough that I can take criticism from anyone, good or bad, but it does not effect my life for more than an hour or so.
After reading your several posts, I sent you a PM, and I will cut & paste your reply, as I think it will help support my concerns of you brief but negative review of the Axioms.

1) When you called me on Monday about an auditioning, if I recall, I made it totally clear that I had just finished putting in place the 4 Halo amps over the weekend, and all I had time to do was testing for any heat issues, running high volume levels for extended times, and no concern about calibrations/adjustments.

2) I also recall making it clear that NOTHING had been set up or carefully calibrated, all speakers & sub, opened, removed from boxes, placed, wired up.

3) I agreed, if you wished to hear the system as it was, and make an honest evaluation of the Axiom speakers under these circumstances, I would be happy to have you take a listen.

When you arrived at 10am, once again I reminded you that nothing was calibrated with precision and things like bass management, treble & bass for each speaker and everything else was all set to factory defaults on the C2 processor. I played two tracks from Tubular Bells 2003 running in 7.1 well I removed all of the speaker grills, so you would be able to view them. You did not seem to prefer the 7.1 sound, and all the listening after that was with your music, and if I recall, mostly in just the stereo mode. You asked if I could add the sub, which I fumbled through all the new screens and managed to do. When you used your CD with the female vocalist that you stated as " tearing up most speakers'" running on the Denon 2900, and the volume level you choose, with just the front M80's, set at 'stereo' mode, no sub. I guess I'm now to take you statement they were handing her voice very well and you were impressed, as being just something nice you said to the owner of the system.

During you auditioning, I offered several times for you to use the set up screens and the Radio Shack meter that I had turned on and laid on the coffee table in front of you, to make any adjustments so the speakers were tweaked to your listening preferences, since every one hears sounds different, this I thought was only fair to the Axiom system. Especially since you had mentioned being to the Good Guys and Magnolia Hi-FI and auditioning the other two brands you were considering. They had a big advantage from the start, since both of those stores have the money to construct nice auditioning spaces. As you could see, in my listening environment, I have over 1,200 sq. ft of marble floor, no carpet or rugs at all, there is 400 - 500 sq. feet of granite on the walls of the solarium and the spa surround. The solarium has over 1,500 sq. ft of glass, and you acknowledge this and admitted I had a very ‘hard’ listening area surface.

Also I made it clear I was not a sub woofer expert, and that I had made a contact on this forum that had offered to visit and aid me in finding the correct location, and then adjust it for me. Also I offered to just turn if off completely and eliminate it from the system, you stated it was okay. You acknowledged this, by saying you did not have any experience at it as well. When I had mentioned the M80s were 4 ohm speakers and the Halo amps were rated at 400watts @4 ohms, and that the QS8's were 6 ohm speakers, you stated you were not familiar with what exactly the ratings of speakers meant.

I have two computer geeks in the house, and since having the Halo C2 processor, they have played with the setup menus, worse than kids at Christmas. The C2 is smarter than I, and I have not read the manual at all, and what set up for inputs that are done, have been by using previous experience. There are set up screens for the Dolby, bass management and may other items. Also there are 5 presets for speaker adjustments, db level, bass, treble, and a few things I have not even read up on, so no clue what those setting even do as of yet. Each of these presets are assignable to any of the inputs for instance, when the C2 detects a signal from the Denon 2900 that a DVD is present, it will use which ever of the 5 preset speaker levels that has been assigned to that input.

When you played your test scene from you DVD, shortly after it was playing, this was the first you mentioned anything about the imaging issue, and also the QS8s not being heard. After you tried relocating the front M80's, and suggesting that perhaps they were wired incorrectly, I admitted something was definitely not right, but you also admitted that it was not the speakers’ fault. If you recall, I did call you within two hours after leaving my house, and informed you I had found the imaging problem. Well playing your DVD, some how that preset speaker level for the M80's was Left 1 dB, Center 7 dB, Right 7 dB, Left QS8 5, Right QS8 4. You admitted that could be the problem with the imaging, perhaps you don't fully understand just what those settings would do to the DVD sound track ?

By this time you had been here nearly two hours, and mentioned you needed to get going. When I asked you what you thought of the Axioms, you stated you were impressed at the clarity, the bass, and the quality of sound from the Halos, you exact words escape me at the time, but it was very high praise for both Axiom/Parasound, and that you wished the Halos were in your budget range, but not. When I asked about the Axiom, and if you were happy with them you had two comments:

1) One concern was the " Axioms just don't have a lot of written reviews ".

2) "Axiom has been around for many years and don't understand why they were only an internet company, and have not expanded out to having a brick and mortar business, like most other speaker companies".

I mentioned that that for the sake of a few hundred dollars, you could audition an entire Axiom system in your home for 30 days, if not happy with it for any reason, simply return it, your comment was "yes, but a couple of hundred is a coupe of hundred"

Having met you, and you being here for a couple of hours, I flet that if you were to make a review of the Axioms on this forum, it would be an accurate one. When I read your posts, it was a total surprise as it to being so negative, and your not taking the time to give more exact detail as to the Axiom set up you auditionied. You were given free run of the system, and could have placed the fronts, rear, and center to your preference, used the SPL and spent maybe 20 minutes to get the baisc set up to allow you a fair and accurate assement of the Axiom speakers.

I was attempting to do you a favor, to have access to a system as I would expect when I have went to top end store and used one of thier auditioning room, I expect to set things to my listening preference, and use my media and spend the time to arrive at what I feel is a well informed decision.

"bass (ep600) was boomy at best...wanted to turn it off"

Sorry Jimmy, this is not accurate, you were told you could adjust, turn off, what ever.

"Sorry...they weren't my speakers to set up and were running on 4...yes 4 Halo amps....way too much power and such a waste of money"

Once again, your fisrt part of this is not accurate at all, you were given the option to adjust/calibrate anything as you prefered. As for the you second statement, Halos being a waste of money, this has nothing to do with a review of the Axiom speakers. If its to provoke me, forget it, you mentioned spending $ 9k on the stereo system in your Lexus, so whats the differance, money is money, and each spends as he likes.

"Since these 4 Halo amps and Halo processor were close to $12,000.00 ...will if that isnt the quality audio equipment necessary to run these speakers...avoid these speakers at all costs....nothing can power them properly."

Once again, if a system is not set up and calibrated, at least to some degree, it does not matter if it was the $3,500 Dennon you are interested in, or if its my Halo system, the speakers are not going to preform to ones liking.

"Wow...if Axiom owners are like you in your response then....will...I'll let your replys speak for themselves."

Jimmy, not sure how long you have been on the internet, or how much expieriance you have had with forum memebers. But forums can be like an extended family, and most on this forum know all to well, the current status of my system, and they also know what Axiom speakers are capable of sounding like. You can not just pop in, make a review as you did, and not expect some defense in reguards to a product most own, and know what they sound like. What you stated is basically impossible if the Axioms were set up at all. Review other brands of speakers, equipment, what ever, on a forum for that cmpany,see if you don't get the same or even more attacking responses.

Dennis,

Please don't take my comments personally...I can understand why you would be concerned as they are yours....but I am compelled to post an honest evaluation of the system I heard.....no one likes to buy a product and then have others criticize the product, but this is a message board for potential buyers.....I believe they are entitled to hear the opinions of others....good or bad....again....I agree, as stated they were not set up properly.....but having said that they didnt produce the quality sound I expected or have heard from better quality speakers...they simply were loud with no distinct sound....very average to my ear...

respectfully,

Jim

As for your PM, I'm not taking this personal, I honestly could care less what you think of my system, I did not add my name to the auditioning list for Axioms to help out my ego or what ever. I will open my door to any one that is interested in Axioms, so they have one more owner to vist, perhaps to help with owners being to far to drive to listen.

One part of your PM, and also in your post is the "honest" evaluation, that is all I expected from you, and if you really feel you have made that, than I'm sorry to wasted my time on this post. How can one make an honest evaluation of a speaker system, and in the same context, admit knowing they were not correctly set up/ calibrated or speaker location not even sure of.

I take the responsability for your negative feelings of the Axiom, I sould have ignored your excitement about hearing them on Tueday. I should have dealyed your audition for a few weeks, till I had the time to tweak, adjust, and learn all the capabilities of the C2 processor/Dennon 2900 before ever allowing a perspective Axiom customer through my door.

Trust me, I'm not to old to still learn, I will not make this sort of quick decision again, and possibly cost Axiom to loose customers. If you are still interested, and once I have had time to do a proper set up, you are welcome to return and give Axioms a second and fair audition.

Nite all,
Dennis
_________________________
ROCK 'N' HAXIOM Theater

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#85708 - 03/17/05 08:16 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

Very well said Dennis.If things were not set up and calibrated I think a second audition would be the ticket.Jimmy take him up on it once things are all set up,it might change your mind.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#85709 - 03/17/05 08:24 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6248
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Jimmy, I do not discount, in any way, your impressions of the Axioms. I'm sure you heard what you say you heard. But, in your rush to judgment in your initial post, other than a cursory "improperly set-up I suspect," and a dismissive,"not properly placed," you made no mention of the fact you had been TOLD of the extenuating circumstances of Dennis' setup, BEFORE you went to his home.

Posting what you posted WITHOUT adding that disclaimer was, at best, irresponsible; at worst, malicious. This lack of balanced reporting brings into question your motives in posting at all. Knowing that things weren't calibrated, how could you possibly expect to post an "honest evaluation" of the Axioms. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, perhaps you are young, and allowed your disappointment to cloud your judgment.

And, your unnecessary, callous, and rude "way too much power and such a waste of money...." crack about Dennis' quality equipment demonstrates a serious lack of audio knowledge, not to mention a profound lack of respect for, and lack of courtesy toward, someone who graciously invited you into his home in an effort to help you.

That was Dennis' ONLY mistake. He should have denied you access until he had everything setup properly. I'm sure he has learned from that error. So have we all.


_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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