You think I'm joking, right? Some have followed the discussions about tube amps - I have one, and you have heard the detractors howling - you know the folks who know everything but hear nothing ... well, I found the answer - a solid state amp which sounds as good as most tube amps, a solid state amp which will knock the socks off a tubie with great specs up to about 10 wpc, a digital amp which costs about $20-40. Yes, that's right, and I'm not kidding.

I got mine and so I can now tell you about the Sonic Impact T-Amp. I paid $20 each and picked up 10 of them. I got a 3 amp 13.8 volt power supply from Radio Shack (otherwise it works on AA batteries), moved the Kenwood KA9100 and a pair of Dahlquist DQM905s out of the way, stood up a pair of 93db efficient Michaura M55s (very similar to the M22) same 5.25" aluminum driver and the 3/4" Titanium tweeter from the Merak line of speakers and the former Axiom - love this speaker), hooked up my15 year old JVC CD player, and holy samolies, the little M55s with the T-Amp just blew away the best garage system I'd ever heard. It is definitely on par with the Antique Sound Labs MG S1 15DT as to sound. The ASL is a bit sweeter, but this T-Amp is a JOKE!!! BUY ONE!!

PS I own no stock or have any interest in the manufacturer, distributor or have anything to do with Sonic Impact or the T Amp except for having gotten mine and picking my ass off the floor in giddy disbelief.

Friends, this thing is great. Go and enjoy. This is not a belated April Fools Joke. This is the real deal.

I hear ya and I know your not joking. I have had 2 for a little over 2 months!

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/sonicimpact/t.html

Okay, I just recently picked up an integrated tube amp, but at forty dollars how can I not pass this up? Looking into it. . .

Go online, get a good power supply (+3 amps, no more than 14V output), get your soldering iron out ... pick up some "L" DC power plugs, solder one to the end of some speaker wire ( I used silver Cardas, of course), get yourself a Radio Shack 1 x 1/8" (earphone jack size) male into 2 RCA male plugs ... and get gobsmacked, giddy with laughing, and then cry about all your expensive amps!!!

I picked up 10, I'm going to put together a nice 6 channel HT system using these things with some extra M55s. These things are awesome as long as you keep the output below 11 watts (15 wpc max). Your M3s will SING!

Can't believe my ears!!

This could turn into the ultimate DIY project. Talk about bang for your buck.

Wow - perhaps I may start a little speaker system sooner than I thought. I've already got a preamp - maybe coupled with this and a pair of M3s...hmmmm...

*Edit: I just ordered one of these. Lets see how they do with the M22s, Peter.

Oh, double great, now I have to move the moose from the fireplace to the back wall, AND the M3s From the back wall to a dedicated listening room-is there no end to this?

Some friends of mine moved out of the city to a hobby farm about 40 miles northwest and they have various farm animals (the goat mostly) wandering through the house pretty much at will. Apart from offering a "your plate is always clean" service I guess they offer a variety of HF dampening scenarios as well.

I guess it's too late to take the moose to the vet ?

Maybe it's an urban legend, but do goats really eat stuffed Moose heads?(the vet is also a taxidemist-extra income, fast service)

We have four grandkids living with us, so empty plates really isn't a problem. (Hey, maybe I could train the kids to stand or sit in strategic locations during serious listening sessons to approximate a wandering goat!!) Including one to hold the pillow behind my head!

goats eat ANYTHING!!

they dont care. they are filthy little animals, with little to no intelligence. there is usually one smart one in a group of 15-20, and they just follow him. but, they are very cute babies..

bigjohn

Ok, got it: Paragraph #1, the goat must be kept away from the moose.

Para #2, Oh, you have grandkids, too?

(Woah!! Better not let my grandkids read that!!!!) Only kiddin' of course!
Rich.

Hmmm, that might be an interesting project go w/ the vintage Pioneer turntable I got this weekend...

I listened to some old R&B vinyl I had. Once again, the detailed sound Axioms makes really bad vinyl pressings/recordings sound really bad. But good recordings, like one of my Whispers albums, sounds fantastic. Sound is a little thin and veiled, but I think that's due to the cartridge, and I have a new Ortofon on order. Dangit, and I thought I was done w/ my system...

I'm thinking of building a Bottlehead Foreplay preamp kit for the T-Amp. The preamp kits with all upgrades runs about $320. The amp goes for $20. The amp costs less than the "gold RCA jack" upgrade for the preamp. Oh well, as Axiom fans know all to well, cost and sound quality are decoupled values.

You've piqued my interest. What all do I need besides the amp to use them? A preamp and a digital source? My Denon doesn't have preouts so I can't use that. What would suggestions of things I need and their costs? Where can I find them?

Hmm. A T-amp, an Ipod, M3's in the back and a power inverter into the lighter might make for a good system in the minivan. Bet the kids would love it. Not sure about my SO.

Did you see those wild speakers in the link to the T-amp review ? They are a work of ...

Hi Player8

All you need is the T-Amp, a pair of efficient speakers (M3s would be swell) and a CD player or IPOD. The T Amp's input jack is a 1/8" earphone mini, so you can get an adaptor - 1/8" male splitting into 2 male RCA plugs (Radio Shack has them for a couple of bucks) if you want to use a full size CD player, or just use the cable supplied if you want to use a walkman, discman or IPOD. You can run the T Amp off of 8 AA batteries or spring for a DC power converter. It's max is 15 watts per channel and if you give it more than 14 volts it'll fry, so you want a 3 amp 14 volt power supply and an "L" DC power plug which you just solder to some hook up wire - connect the exposed wire ends to the power supply and the "L" plug into the T Amp. The T Amp has a volume control so - that's all you need unless you want to use multiple sources or a phono.

I've taken everyone who has come by the past few days into the garage and the uniform reaction is "Holy Sh*t!"

But isn't it a different garage now?

Just yanking your chain. I can't wait for my brother's unit to arrive. Should be fun! (My onkyo has no pre-outs, so I'll have to use a cable straight from the CD player to get a signal to the amp.)

Yes, and the acoustics are not as good in the new garage as they were in the old.

That's what I'm doing at this point - I'm using that earphone jack to twin RCA jack adapter and hooking the CDP straight into the T Amp. That's the shortest and cleanest signal path possible.

Well, you got me.
Just ordered one from Target.
Who Knew???
This'll keep me from having to run speaker wire back into the bedroom, and we'll also be able to take it out in the backyard for when we are putzing around out there.
I'll just run my little iRiver CD player off of it.
Cool.
TjB

2x6 Speeds,
I just finished building the new Foreplay III and it sounds so sweet, I also have a Foreplay 2 that I have had for about a year these are a fun project and you really get a feeling of saisfaction by doing it yourself. Try one..

Koiman, after my next round of trials, I will build one of those fire bottle preamps! I think the combination of a good tube preamp and the T-Amp will be absolute music magic.

The garage is the only place in the house I'm allowed to smoke my pipe, so I'm spending some quality time at my garage desk, where the new T Amp, and the rest of the garage set up is located. Got the jazz going, Loreena McKennett's 'Elemental,' Tony,Frank and Dean, Diana Krall, Norah Jones, Jewkes ... UNBELIEVABLE!

I can't get over how good this wee amp sounds. It is fantastic!

Well, I got mine today, and I'll tell ya' this is pretty amazing.
I don't know what tube amps sound like, but I can certainly tell you that this does not sound like $40.

Well, since you paid about $40, it does sound like 40. Makes you think twice about spending more, don't it?

(I'm still waiting for my brother's amp to arrive.)

But if it's $40, how can it possibly compare to the $2000 amps out there? It must be inferior by logic in other active threads around here...

Oops, I really shouldn't do this... <evil grin>

Nice, you made your brother buy one instead of kicking yourself?
The least you can do is buy the batteries!


How about this;
It dosen't sound like anything audio-related I've ever spent $40 on.
Wait, I've never spent (just) $40 on anything audio.
Ummm,
Where do we get in line for the torches and pitchforks before we storm the Audio Castles?

It's amazing, isn't it? What speakers are you running with your T-Amp, seabear? BTW, if you want to unleash the T Amp's music potential, get a good power converter (minimum 3 amps, maximum 14 volts) and enjoy! The AA batteries don't have enough in them to really get the thing singing.

I'm thinking of doing a project amp based on the T Amp. The project will involve:

1. Building a copper lined wood cabinet
2. Alps attenuator
3. V cap capacitors
4. Decent non-ferrous speaker terminal
5. RCA input panel

I don't think I could get away with bringing a Sears DieHard into the house, so a nice AC/DC power converter.

I have my eye on a beautiful cigar humidor which has been lying around. Could be fun!

I pulled my M2i's down from on top of the audio shelf and plugged them in. They sound amazing. First thing my fiance said was "You gotta be sh****n' me."
I also rooted around in an old electrical orphan drawer and found a power supply that had a plug that fits, and was using that last night. I'll have to check and see to make sure that it is not too much juice for it.

Funny you had the same thought on the box.
First thing I thought of was building some sort of box/carrier for the whole thing, something to hold the power converters for the amp and iRiver CD player, the amp, the player and the cables. With just the speaker wires and one power cord coming out the back.
I've not run it very long. Any issues with heat while shut in a box like that?
What a great find!
THANKS!

Might want to look at something like this in place of a wall wart

and what might a pretty little box like that go for?

About $25.00. Check out etronics, HAM and CB online supply houses. You can probably find one for about $22.

I'd like to hear how they sound with your M60s!

Hey, Wait a second.
That power supply is $20!
This whole audiophile thing is getting way out of control.
Next thing I know I'm going to be going down to Home Depot for that thick 12 gauge stuff to replace the free stuff I had lying around in the closet.
Sheeesh!

Hey! It's an expensive habit. $20 here, $20 there, some Axiom speakers, and pretty soon you're talking real money.

Loving Life!

What a hoot

TjB

2x6--

First, thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention here. Awesome info.

I'm about as mechanically/electrically inept as one can be, so pls pardon the ignorant/basic questions. I am dying to try this thing out.

What is an "L" DC power plug? Any links to a picture of one so I can understand?

Using the photo of the Pyramid power supply, were you saying that you take the bare wire & connect it to the red/black terminals, and the other end of those wires are soldered to this "L" plug? And the plug then fits into the amp?

Thanks!
Rich

Yes samandnoah, you solder the "L" type power plug to the stripped, bare ends of some hookup wire. The "L" plug is a male jack like you see on those wall wart power converters (cell phone chargers, chargers for power drills, etc.) that is inserted into the female power receptical in the T Amp. Power plugs come in different diameters, that's why some wall warts won't fit other electrical gizmos. You use an AC/DC power converter because you need more amps than most wall warts can give you. The converter takes the 120 volts from the outlet and converts it to 13.8 volts and 4 amps. Anyway, using the right size power plug allows you to connect the converter (power supply) to the T Amp, which will only take an "L" sized power plug.

I didn't wait for the Pyramid, so I grabbed one from Radio Shack for about $45 or so but it looks like the Pyramid except it's smaller and probably not as good.

http://www.globtek.com/html/outputPlugCord.htm

Well I don't know if I'd go so far as to call it super tube sound, but this puny little thing actually works!

Just received it today (in a package so small and light it seemed they forgot to send the actual product with it) and after a search for some small bare speaker wire was able to hook it up to Peter's M22s using a cd walkman for a source. Although, when Peter and I first saw just how small it really is, our first reaction was "no freaking way this thing'll work."

It works! I initially had it hooked up to my headphone amp (A gilmore dynamic V2) with the gilmore functioning as a preamp, and although that gave a lot more headroom, I found I actually preferred the sound straight out of the T-amp - it sounded noticeably more full. In fact, both Peter and I couldn't really find any fault with it - nothing sounded like it was missing and despite the low wattage, nothing sounded thin or strained, even when at max volume, which admittedly isn't that loud - but is a bit above my normal listening level (sorry Dennis, I don't think this amp is for you). This would however be a great amp for a bedroom system.

Immediately after we'd finished listening to the t-amp I hooked the M22s back up to Peter's receiver and compared, and found that I preferred the Onkyo - it sounded more effortless and also a little better in the bass. But take into account that I was using an entirely different (and better) source, and Peter's Onkyo (obviously) has a lot more power. Might be an apples and oranges thing.

For $20, though, this is really a no brainer for anyone interested in building a small system. I'm strongly considering getting some M3s and using them with the t-amp as my computer stereo system. Thanks for the heads up, 2x6!

I agree with Adam's assessment, and here are a couple pics.

The T Amp is flat to 10 wpc output. My Antique Sound Labs MG S1 15DT puts out 5 wpc. When I had a pair of M22s, and M3s, I noticed that the ASL didn't drive the M22s nearly as well as the M3s. I use a pair of Michaura M55s with my T Amp. The Michauras are very much like the M22s, same 5.25" drivers, but use the 3/4" titanium tweeter from the M0-M1 and previous M2 (and Merak speakers as well). The M55s are much easier to drive than the M22s despite the very similar driver kit. I wouldn't judge the T-Amp based on the M22s, I think the M3s would be a mcuh better match.

Also, I think you need an external power supply to get these things up and singing. AA batteries just don't have the amps to get this thing going.

Can anybody post a link to where I could get one. I'm in Canada so Target isn't an option for me.

pc mall and partsexpress.com have them. You might want to google and see who'll ship and whose price is best.

ecost has them as well, 19.95 US, and they do border free shopping for Canadians, when you go through the borderfree checkout on their website everything is calculated so you know exactly how much you are paying upfront.



Al

Well E-cost is usually good, but $25.55 CDN for shipping, $14.74 for handling(?) plus GST works out to a cool, $70.70 CDN. That's just crazy!

I got mine last week and had been trying to get one for several months. Got it from partsexpress.

The amp lives up to the hype. It's great. I used it upstairs with my old Klipsch bookshelves (90db sensitivity) and my old Technics cd player. So far, I have only listened with batteries. Wish I had M22s to use with this thing. The bass is really full and low and I hear some 'tubey bloom'. There is a soundstage (compared to nil soundstage with the 8 year old Technics receiver I was using).

I'm going to try and get another one and some cheapie speakers for the back deck for this summer. Only thing that will get me inside the house are the M60s!

btw, anyone have any recommendations on some real cheap speakers for outdoors?

Agreed!

Thanks for your help 2x7spds!

One more question: why not just buy a power cord with a wall wart, and be done with it? Am I missing some advantage/disadvantage (other than a big fat wall wart)?

Thanks again.

Rich

Watts = Amps * Volts.

15 watts per channel = 30 watts = X * 14 volts
30W/14V = 2.1 Amps.

So, I like to have a bit extra, so, I want at least a 3 amp 14 volt power supply. If you can find a wall wart which meets these requirements, go for it. I like the idea of a shielded (metal case) converter/power supply.

Since this is a digital amp, I don't believe it's affected (soundwise) by unclean power in the same way analog amps (perhaps) are.

Lorenzo,
is there a reason why one of us could not just buy one here for you and ship it up?
I'll volunteer!
TjB

I appreciate the offer Seabear, very nice of you but it won't kill me to not get one so that's ok. As usual all the regulars on this forum are the best!!!

So I was going to install some in ceiling speakers and power them with this sonic amp when I watch tv. I don't want to have to power up my whole system just to watch tv. This would do the job right?

Read the Axiom AudioFile Newsletter - April 2005 for comments on in-wall speakers.

If you plan on useing them for TV only, I see no problem whatsoever in going with in-wall speakers. After all, they're bound to sound better than most TV's built-in speakers.

In reply to:

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I don't want to have to power up my whole system just to watch tv.

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Why does this give me a mental picture of having to wake up the monkey on the bicycle generator, the roof opening to allow the lightning collector to be elevated and then the dramatic throwing of a radically oversized knife switch?

Bren R.

I could go for a power up sequence like that... That would be sweet.

In reply to:

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Why does this give me a mental picture of having to wake up the monkey on the bicycle generator, the roof opening to allow the lightning collector to be elevated and then the dramatic throwing of a radically oversized knife switch?

Bren R.

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This vividly reminds me of something I saw on the E! channel (I believe that's where it was) awhile back of whatever that blonde headed actors name during an interview of him on his balcony peddling away on a bicycle/generator to charge up the batteries for his hybrid automobile. Whatever!

Were any animals harmed in the making of that clip?

Severely. However, you must take your complaint to sir penguin.

Yeah for stuff like news and sports, i don't really want to waste electrcity on the amp powering the 5.1 and stuff. I was just looking for something better than tv speakers. Some tv's nowadays don't even have speakers built it so I don't need to hear the local news anchor through the M60's.

So having these in ceiling speakers powered by the Sonic amp thing would be ideal I think.

If you don't mind the sound coming from the ceiling, then then it's a pefect solution.

2x6 - I was hoping for at least Calvin peeing on something!

Bren R.

Peace on ya. Who's Calvin?

Calvin, of Calvin and Hobbes, the marvelous cartoon by Bill Watterson. Who, incidentally, is royally ticked at those little images of Calvin peeing on things. They're not his idea, they're not his royalties, and they're not in the spirit of the cartoon.

Well, he has a point. I never saw Ford or Chevy mentioned in any of his cartoons...

Oh come on... Calvin must be in his late 20s by now, I'm sure he has a drivers license and has some strong opinions about Ford or Chevy or both.

Wonder how he turned out ? What do you figure, maybe ended up in advertising or something ?

I've been meaning to get a decal cut for bro of Eugene the Jeep from the Popeye comics peeing on Calvin.



Bren R.

doesn't really look like peeing, so much as "prison love"...

Bren, does he drive a jeep?

I have, I have!

Last of the AMCs; made, like my Axioms; in Canada!!

In reply to:

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Bren, does he drive a jeep?

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Why, yes, that was kind of the crux of the joke.

Bro's got a black Cherokee... before that it was a red Cherokee. Since he always drives it to shoots, and it invariably ends up in a shot at some point, we joke that it's going to have to sign an Screen Actors Guild card.

Bren R.

i thought that was the joke and was kindof asking tongue in cheek. but i really like that idea i hate those calvin decals i think i will buy a jeep just to steel your idea. lol

What a great thread! You folks have convinced me to get the T-Amp. I'll probably get it from Parts Express as they had no problems in shipping a previous order to South Africa.
Just a few questions:
I'm currently using just bare speaker wire at the binding posts on my M22's, which are connected to my receiver.
I'm thinking of running new speaker wire from the T-amp to the M22, and terminating the M22 end of the T-amp's speaker wire with banana plugs.
Will the input signal from the T-amp still get to the M22, even if I've already got bare speaker wire (from my receiver) in the binding post? Or do I have to buy stackable banana plugs and use banana plugs for both the receiver and the T-amp wire at the M22 end?

If I understand what you mean, and if I remember correctly (and somebody will have to corroborate this), it is NOT A GOOD IDEA to hook two amplifiers to one set of speakers at the same time. Don't do it until somebody with more knowledge than I says it's OK to do so. You'll probably need some sort of a switch box to connect two amps to one set of speakers.

Ajax, thanks for taking the time to answer. Only 1 of the amplifiers would be powering the speakers at any given time.
Why else would stackable banana plugs plugs be invented if this wasn't a possibility.

Oh Frell! I just tried ordering and Parts Express requires a minimum $100 dollar amount for an international order.
Damn, got all excited for nothing.

I concur with Jack. Even if you're only powering one at a time, current is still going to be flowing through both cables. Stackable banana plugs, as I understand it, are often used for adding other speakers to the same speaker output, such as running a pair of center speakers off of one center amp.

zathras- who is the 'new' female on your avatar. is she an actress or model or something.. i dont recognize her..?

and where are you "international". i love to know where folks are from.

bigjohn

bigjohn, my avatar is the delectable Indian hottie Bipasha Basu. She's a model and Bollywood actress. In terms of sex appeal, I find her much more desirable than the other Bollywood actress everone seems to favour, former Miss World Aishwarya Rai (seen recently in Bride and Prejudice).

I'm from Durban, South Africa.
And I've seen enough US tv to guess that you're a proud Texan.

Thanks for the advice on the stackable banana plugs everyone.

Well, as Ken said, and drawing on some caveat I ran across long ago, if you have two amps connected to one set of speakers, even with one of them off, the current from the one that is on, is going into the speakers and then back down the other set of speaker wire to the speaker outputs of the other amp, and I think current flowing INto an OUTput is a "no no." I do hope that someone who knows what they're talking about will chime in here (No offense meant, Ken. You're right about the function of stacking bananas. )

In reply to:

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stacking bananas

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That sounds like something out of spiffnme's "movie" collection...

EEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWW!

In reply to:

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spiffnme's "movie" collection

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i dont find that funny at al.... OK, yes i do..

ya know, i bet craig has a bathroom reader chock full of hetero jokes that he is just gonna unleash on us one day. we keep pushing him like this, the guy is liable to crack!!

jeff foxworthy style...
YOU might be a hetero if.......

..you have less than 3 bee-gee's cd's in your collection.
..the word "fabulous" is not in your daily vocabulary.
..the news of a Cher and Prince concert tour doesnt make you pass out with excitement..

did someone say bananas?? its time for lunch..

bigjohn

In reply to:

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I'm from Durban, South Africa.

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Yes, but are you the one who was, the one who is, or the one who will be?

B5 4EVR!!!

In reply to:

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I do hope that someone who knows what they're talking about will chime in here

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Just from basic electical circuits theory, by adding additional elements to the circuit, you're changing the load... it won't remain 8 ohms. stacked bananas parallel the load, so the load appears lower from the point of view of the driver. Someone mentioned the example of one amp driving two centers... this appears to the the amp as a single equivalent load of half the original impedance (assuming both centers are matched... 2 parallel 8 ohm speakers look like a single 4 ohm speaker).

Additionally, when there's two active drivers on one load (2 amps, one speaker), unless there's a perfect match of voltage between the two drivers, one will source current and the other will sink current. This may not be an issue if the amp was designed to handle it. Was your amp designed to handle it? If you can't absolutely say "yes", I'd go on the side of caution and not drive both of them into one speaker.

OTOH, My M60s have two sets of banana sockets. They're tied together with metal straps. You can use two amps on this speaker by removing the straps and then each amp drives one set of banana sockets. Internally, they're isolated from each other so there's no current flowing between the amps. It's really that each amp drives its own speaker, but these speakers share a cabinet.

Now we leave my area of expertise and get into yours.

What's the advantage of using two amps on a single speaker? Is it just to get a large amplitude (volume)? I'm not sure of my power ratings, but my amp can drive the M60s, QS8's and VP100 well enough to more than fill my room. Why do I need more than that?

By adding more power capabilities, but listening at the same volume, you'd stay away from the maximum power that the amp is capabile of delivering. Is there less distortion when staying away from the maximum power level? I've seen that distortion in old (like 1940s) amps, but I wouldn't think it would be as prevalent in modern amps. Is it?

Enjoy!

I set up one of the T-Amps with the Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CDP driving a pair of M22 like Michaura M55s wired through a Velodyne CHT 10 subwoofer. UNBELIEVABLE! This little, plastic 15 wpc amp (with Radio Shack 13.8V/3Amp power converter) filled my large family room (cathedral ceiling) with glorious music.

I can't do an A/B with my 5 wpc tube amp because the tubie needs a bit of tech attention after the move and is out of commission.

This T Amp makes music!!

As to stacking amps, why? If you have efficient speakers (Axioms) you don't really need more than 5 wpc to generate substantial volume levels. If you want head whacking volume levels, go with a more powerful amp. These T Amps are pure to about 10 watts output, get a bit strained above that, but 10 wpc into 93 db efficient speakers is LOUD friends.

If you can find one of these T Amps, grab one, or more. They are a hoot!

I've had mine for several weeks, and just laugh out loud whenever i turn it on.
This past weekend a buddy who is seriously into the A/V stuff came up for the first time to hear the Axioms and new gear.
He was blown away by the Axioms. It was the first time he had heard them.
Then I set up and turned on the T-Amp with the M2i's.
He was simply staggered. Just kept laughing and laughing.
His wife came into the room, and wanted to know what was going on, and all he could do was point at the T-Amp.
Finally he was able to get out, "It's from Target, and it costs $30!"
I think he is already ordering 5 of them to set up a whole house system for a friend of his wife.
Because of how good this thing is, I am thinking of abandoning the front effects speakers with the Yamaha DSPs and seeing if I can trade my M2i's in on a set of M3i's to set up a bedroom system with the T-Amp.
What a Great, Great Tip this was!
Thanks 2X6!!!

In reply to:

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This T Amp makes music!!

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I agree that this is a great little amp, but "make music" is quite an exaggeration. An amp is not a musical instrument, nor should it be. This amp amplifies music cleanly, which is especially impressive considering how inexpensive all its components are.

Come on Pmbucko, you're just a little miffed because the $20 T Amp is better than what you're running, right?

PMB's sour note is probably borne of the false belief that all amps sound the same. They don't. The T Amp is really astonishingly good!

Check back to the initial review my brother (adamp88) posted. Based on a casual A/B session, we both agreed that my Onkyo sounded more open and natural than the T-amp. If the T-amp cost closer to $100 or $200, I don't think I'd recommend it to anyone, as SS amps can be had at that price which provide more power and authority.

I do not tend to make blanket statements, but here's one I'll cop to: all amps do not sound the same. We all agree that tube amps do not sound like SS amps. Digital amps are another breed of SS amp altogether, so until I see some data and statistics, I am not going to state or implicate that they sound the same as other amps.

What I will say is this. By implying that you can hear the difference between amps of like technology (i.e. SS vs SS), you are saying your ears are far finer and more accurate at picking out audio "signatures" than hundereds of inidividuals of wide and various backgrounds who have participated in blind listening tests performed under controlled (read: variables minimized) listening tests.

Are you really that good, or are you allowing other well-known influences to cloud your judgment?

In reply to:

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Come on Pmbucko, you're just a little miffed because the $20 T Amp is better than what you're running, right?

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Nah, I gotta agree with Peter on this one. It's another one of those hyperboles that really undermines believability.

Like "the Sony DXC-D50WS is such an incredible camera it makes your subject look like a professional actor even if they rolled out of the elementary Christmas play!"...

Bren R.

I didn't know Adam88 was your brother. Did you all run your T Amp off batteries or an AC/DC converter? If you ran it off of 4 AA batteries, I'd guess the Onkyo would sound a bit more natural or open. If you ran the T Amp off a 3+Amp 13.8 volt power supply, I'd be very surprised if the Onk came out on top (assuming you were running some efficient Axiom speakers.)

I've had my share of Onkyo receivers and amplifiers. I had a TSDX (dislex) 797, many M282 2 channel amps, and still have the Big Onk, an M504. The T Amp more than holds its own against all these Onks. Which Onk were you using? Batteries, right?

In reply to:

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Come on Pmbucko, you're just a little miffed because the $20 T Amp is better than what you're running, right?

PMB's sour note is probably borne of the false belief that all amps sound the same. They don't. The T Amp is really astonishingly good!

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Was this juvenile little barb even necessary? Please.

Yes, the t-amp was run off batteries. Did it sound tube-like? No, not really. Actually, if we were to judge tube-like the presence of a warmer, more lush and open sound, than of the two, the Onkyo sounded more tube-like.

I plan on getting a power supply for the t-amp some time (I'm not in a rush) and then I'll see how much it improves. If it indeed does become so much better that it gives the Onkyo a run for the money, I will gladly state it here.



slightly OT, but aren't there some "audiophiles" who claim that battery power gives a more clean, pure sound?

For that you're going to have to take the Sears Die Hard out of your car and into the living room. Get a converter, it's safer.

Partsexpress.com has these 5 amp 13.8 volt power supplies for $30.00.

pcmall.com has the T Amp for $20.00.

Quick..... someone loan me fifty bucks.

I sure wish business would pick up so I could spend some money.
Even just a little $$
I have the upgradeitis bug soooo bad. Maybe its good that business is slow.

BethR,
zathras is sidekick, not hero.

Well the reviews here and elsewhere, have been so positive, that I've ordered 2 T-amps. A buddy also wants one, so we made the $100 Parts Express minimum.

I'm getting a 13.8V/3A power supply locally. Its been recommended here, so I hope it won't fry the 12V T-amp.

One of the main reasons I ordered the T-amp is because I've read people say that Pioneer amps are not "musical" and I'd really like to hear the M22's using something better. I've got the VSX-D812 A/V Receiver. It has pre-outs for all channels. There's something I want to try after I've tested the T-amp in its normal configuration. Take the left speaker RCA pre-out. Split it using a RCA splitter. Then use the Dual RCA jack/3.5mm stereo plug on the other end to send a dual-mono signal into the 1 T-AMP. Hence, I'll be using both channels of the T-amp to power the M22's. I'll just combine the 2 negative wires from the T-amp into 1 banana plug, etc. Do the same for the right speaker.
Now will the power supply be able to handle 2 T-amps?

I've been reading a lot about this amp, and it has gotten a lot of attention from DIY-ers. I'm going to get a project going similar to this one. Maybe do one with better capacitors, resistors and wires later (if I get brave enough). Gonna be a lot of fun.

I've already upgraded the output jack so that I've got RCA jacks in its place. When I get the time, I'm going to convert a nice wood cigar humidor into a housing for the T Amp's guts.

Alright, 2X6 has convinced me. Once I get a summer job back home I'm placing my orders. One question though, do you think the amp will sound good paired with the M22's? I figure I will set up the T-amp and my Denon side-by-side and attach banana plugs to the speaker ends of the cables and just switch them out depending on my preference. It won't be too much of a hassle.

Good question player8. The first Axiom speakers I had were M3Tis. To say they knocked my socks off is an understatement. I liked them better than the $3000 Infinity Composition Overture III speakers I had. I sold the Infinities. I paired the M3s to an ASL 5 wpc SET tube amp. JeezLouize, I could not believe how great this combination sounded, so I ordered a pair of M22Tis. Now, I don't know whether there was a problem with that particular pair or what, but I preferred the M3s. I A/B's the M3s and M22s with my golden eared musician friend, and he agreed. The M22s did not 'open up' with 5 wpc.

So, the T Amp also puts out 5 wpc into 8 ohms. I'd guess based on my tube experience that the M3s might be the better match with the T Amp.

Anyone have a T Amp and both M3s and M22s? I don't have M3s anymore, but I do have a pair of M2s which I will pair with the T Amp sometime this weekend. I'll report back.

I'd really appreciate your response. I'll have my dad do the soldering and hope to experience a new type of audio nirvana.

Here are my thoughts after a month with the t-amp:

1. The T-amp sounds more musical than any low-fi receiver. This is very clear. Comparisons were made to my low-fi Technics and Sony receivers pulled from the attic.

2. The T-amp does indeed color the sound unlike what people have heard before in either tube or ss. If you can deal with this and are interested, then get it. But be warned, it does sound different.

3. The T-amp exhibits a quality that is closer to tubes than ss.

4. I thought the M22s were highly sensitive, allowing the t-amp to drive them properly. I really don't see an issue here. Am I wrong?

5. Would I rather have a NAD C370? Yes. But this thing is approximately $30.

Thanks Riff. I'd actually prefer this amp to sound more "tube" than solid-state as I've long wanted to experiment with tube electronics and see if it is to my liking.

Ola Riffman
I don't know if there was a problem with the M22s I had for a very short period of time. Mine just didn't sound right. I've read the reviews and other folks' posts and can only conclude there was a problem with my pair. Axiom handled the matter in grand style, of course, and I ended up with a pair of M50s in their place. The M3Tis I had were super tube friendly speakers. Now, the funny thing is, what I replaced my M3s with are a bunch of Michaura speakers. I use the M55s which have the same driver compliment as the M22s, (exact same drivers), but use the Merak/previous M2, M1, M0, QS4 ... 3/4" titanium tweeter. These things are wonderful with the 5 wpc tubie and wonderful with the T Amp as well.

I modified my M55s with Jensen paper/oil capacitors (really expensive), indulged them with some internal silver speaker wire, and damped them with some acoustic foam from partsexpress. They're good!

Anyway, I can't say that the T Amp colors the sound with these efficient speakers. The M55s are rated at 93db and I relieve the T Amp of low frequency duty by running all the speakers from the line outs of my Velodyne subwoofer.

I agree that the T Amp sounds more tube like than sandy.

I think an A/B comparo between a T Amp driven by external power source and the NAD would be interesting. I wouldn't bet on the NAD.

Anyway, here's an interesting link to a fella who has done some extensive mods to his T Amp, including a nice R2D2 style housing.



site found here:
http://www.michael.mardis.com/sonic/maunakea.htm

a bit more
http://www.michael.mardis.com/sonic/news.htm#sound

In reply to:

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Anyway, here's an interesting link to a fella who has done some extensive mods to his T Amp, including a nice R2D2 style housing.

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Metal housing, hot tube inside... hmm... fill that sucker up with water and it'd be like the EZ-Bake Slow Cooker!

Bren R.

Nope, nope, that's a digital amp. Nice 'n' cool.

That's a nicely done mod. This little amp is great because of its modding potential alone.

I agree PMB. I'm collecting parts to modify one of my T Amps. I have a beautiful cigar humidor which I will contribute as a house for the guts, a Panasonic EV-J volume control, some vampire female RCA jacks, input jacks, silver wire, woo hoo, I'll be ready to go!

BTW, I pulled out my M2s and the little T Amp drove them just fine. The M2s don't open up the way the Michaura M55s do, but they sound very similar. (not unexpected because they use the same though only a single 5.25" driver.

I got a gigando humidor filled with dried out cigars. You could probably fit about 300 of those little amps in that monstrosity.

Mark,

You do need to fill it once and a while,70 to 72% humidity seems to work well for me.

Only if you smoke 'em.

The T-AMPhitheater... Keeping the tunes playing while building the Deck...



Hopefully this will not be as large an image as it turned out to be on my hatchet job of a site

Hey Seabear--

Looking good! What are you using as an AC adaptor for the amp? And where did you get it?

Thanks!
Rich

just one of those so called Wall Warts, from a battery charger.
I think it is 12.5 volts and 5 amps.
Sounds great!

Am I going to hear any noticable improvememnt by going to one of those 13.8 V power sources as oppossed to the 12V wall wart that I am using now?
Is the extra 1.8 volts going to really do anything?

Seabear

The most important thing is that you're wall wart is NOT putting out more than 13.8 volts. Some, though rated at 12V put out more than 15. The T Amp's chip will go up in a puff of white smoke (bad) if you give it too much juice.

If you have a multi meter you may want to check the output of your wall wart.

BTW, you get a bit more volume with more volts but 13V is just fine.

Thanks,
I'll dig it out and check.
Have you looked around the net at what people are doing with these T-Amps?
Pretty amazing stuff.

Where is a cheap place to purchase wall warts? Radioshack wall warts don't have enough current and the 13.8v converter is $41.99 plus tax. I know that using the T-Amp with two in ceiling MB Quarts 8" drivers, it sounds pretty good. It seems to lack the base but that could be the configuration of just driving the speakers in open air. Will do a perfect job if i just want to have better sound for watching regular tv.

I wish this thing had a remote. Maybe some modding.....

Ok so I am looking at either a wall wart at 12V 4.5A ($17)
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=120-1076


or
Power Supply 13.8 V 5A ($30)
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=120-534


What do you guys think is the best solution for everyday use, like really everyday when I turn on my tv to watch the news and ESPN kinda thing?

Is you're using it to power speakers that you want to use instead of your TV speakers, then go with the wall wart instead of the extra box. Cheaper is better, in this case.

I'd go with the metal box - more likely quieter, more resistent to RF, more likely to operate at rated voltage. You can find one made by "Pyramid" at most online CB equipment sites for about $25.

Had Big Will over to the new place for some smoked salmon and bagels, and of course, a little music from the wee T Amp. A bit of George Winston piano (Montana...), Noel Jewkes, Nora Jones and some other jazz pieces, a bit of Jobim and Getz.

I also demoed my new Frankenstein Center Channel Speaker.

He seemed OK with it all ... he didn't take back his cigars ...

BTW, thanks, that was a great, hearty cigar!

You callin' me Frankenstein?! I reckon I am big - and I've been to "The Dead" a couple of times...

No, no, my Merak, Axiom, Reference 3a de Capo mm hybrid ... umm... Frankenstein center channel speaker in my upstairs office. The more I listen to it, the more I love it!

Once again, Merak anti standing wave cabinet, 2 x 6.5" Axiom aluminum drivers, Reference 3a de Capo mm tweeter and cross over, and my secret (but modified) thingie on top.

BigWill is Big, by the way, New York Giants lineman large. I want him on my team.

<<BigWill is Big, by the way, New York Giants lineman large. I want him on my team.>>

And I understand there were only two beers in the fridge. That could've been a disaster.

the "BIG" question here is... bigwill, what did you think of the little T-amp..? i have been hearing soooo much about this thing, i figured you might give your impressions of it.

BTW- new york giants lineman is still kinda small.. now if 2x6 would have said you were dallas cowboys lineman kinda big, now that might impress me..

bigjohn

I'm kinda fat now, but a few years ago... man I was hot! Oh well.

I wouldn't expect that anyone is going to want to rush out and replace their receivers with this little thing. Unlike the actual tube amp that I heard on a previous visit, this T-amp did seem to add something (something easily noticeable) to the music. At least that was my perception.

Well, i added rca connections and replaced the speaker terminals, and I instantly noticed some clarity in the music. Werid. Add an external power supply and it sounds fantastic. I am thinking about changing the capacitor out later on. I am using the T-Amp to power some MB Quarts in-ceiling speakers for when I want to watch TV. Heck for $20 its a fun toy for my iPod.

Hi nautec

I've got some RCA connectors in there now, and I'm looking at the caps as well. What speaker terminals did you use? BTW, I think the T Amp sounds fantastic also!

I used the banana plugs from radioshack. It allowed me to use thicker wire. Since I don't have many options of getting parts locally, that was all i have. The old speaker terminals didn't really "grip" the wire at all and i was forced to use thin 18 gauge wire. Now up to 12 will fit now but 14-16 will be what I will use.

2x6--

I finally ordered a couple of the amps and am waiting for them to arrive. I've got another stupid question about powering them. Looking at the pyramid PS you suggested, I started wondering why use the PS-7KX rated @ 13.8V, 5amp continuous, 7 max? Why not go with another one that has same 13.8v, but higher amperage rating, like 10 amps? I'm assuming that there is some basic electronics reason, but I have absolutely no idea.

Thanks again for all of your help.

Rich

Hi samandnoah

Watts = Amps * Volts.

15 watts per channel = 30 watts = X * 14 volts
30W/14V = 2.1 Amps.

So, a 3 amp 14 volt power supply will give you a bit extra. Anything more would be unnecessary.

Rich, as 2x6 correctly demonstrated, that power supply would be more than adequate. Although manufacturers sometimes indulge in "high current" hype, the amount of current needed in a specific situation is no more than required by God and Dr. Ohm.

Very interesting indeed...especially at only 20 bucks. And here is what 500 bucks can do with the same little amp!

http://www.redwineaudio.com

http://www.redwineaudio.com

Do you think the Tamp can handle 12V 7.5Amps? Since I have a ton of Computer power supplies and one of the rails is 12V 7.5A 200W, i was thinking i could use that to feed into the TAmp. But I am not sure if it can handle it. Does anyone know? THanks.

It's the volts - 12 volts are fine for the T Amp. It doesn't make any difference how many amps are available so long as you provide at least 2.1 amps. If you go over 14 volts you'll fry the T Amp's chip. I would use an independent power supply.

If the T Amp ever drew 7 amps, you'd have a lot of melted, undifferentiated metal, plastic, insulation, bad gasses, and probably a fire.

In reply to:

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Do you think the Tamp can handle 12V 7.5Amps? Since I have a ton of Computer power supplies and one of the rails is 12V 7.5A 200W, i was thinking i could use that to feed into the TAmp. But I am not sure if it can handle it. Does anyone know? THanks.

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Just remember that you need a pretty substantial load for an AT/ATX PS to regulate itself (I found out the hard way building my arcade cabinet - used a spare AT PS to power the coin return lights and fans... even now if one of the #45 lamps in the coin returns burns out, it goes below the minimum load and starts doing funky things with the output voltage)

A good starting point is 10% of rated maximum, so you may find you have to "burn off" a bulb or something to reach your minimum load.

Bren R.

So that is a negative on using a ATX power supply for the TAmp? TAmps are so hard to come by nowadays that I am not ready to fry one just yet.

I really don't know whether or not the load would be enough to regulate voltage (and each PS is different... I tried two before I found a whopping 150W AT that would be stable with two fans (80mm and 60m) and two #45 lamps attached. ATX may be different (just remember to "hold low" the POWER GOOD line on the wiring harness or it won't fire up!) but if the T-Amp isn't tolerant of higher than expected voltage, I wouldn't try it.

My opinion. YOMV.

Bren R.

OH MY GOSH!!!! WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR FACE BREN!!

take it away, its freakin me out!!

thats scary..

bigjohn

That took longer than I thought... it's Peter's son's face on mine... figured I'd post one message with that, see if anyone caught it.

Bren R.

I would retaliate by photoshopping myself into Lisa's face, but I don't have a picture of her.



EDIT:
Ooooh, I didn't mean it like that, really.

In reply to:

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Ooooh, I dind't mean it like that

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haha... now thats funny!!

bigjohn

For the Canadian wanting to try one of these amps, but not wanting to order from the US: A guy from the Canuck Audio Mark is selling one with adapter for $55 here.

Just thought I'd give a heads up.

2x6--

What do you think of this power supply? Small Power Supply

I know you recommended 2.1 amps, but at 2 amps this little power supply seems to be a bit smaller and is a bit less expensive as well.

Anyone ever try one of these?

Rich

Looks good samandnoah! From what I've read, sounds like folks who are using great big 12 Volt batteries with a trickle charger are pretty darn happy.

Thanks for the endorsement! I know folks are using batteries, but I keep imagining a car battery on my wife's desk, and that isn't going to fly. Am I misunderstanding?

What appealed about the power source I linked to is that it appears to be fairly small. She's not going to be happy with anything that is large, takes up space, can't be easily moved around on the desk, and has many parts to it.

Take care,
Rich

Hey!, Here's a thought:

Optima Batteries(and probably others as well)produce a battery(In Designer colors)that is sealed, so no outgassing occurs on charging(Important, as a neighbor lady was killed when a battery on her mobility cart exploded in her home during charging due to outgassing of the battery, accompanied by some errant spark from somewhere-so says the News-apparently she was unable to walk away from the house fire)

But perhaps a "Designer" "Safe" battery wouldn't offend!?

It may not work well in your application, but might give a heads-up for any other readers considering a similar set-up with batteries in the home.

We had one of our boat batteries go "poof", rupture a cell and splatter acid in a relatively confinned space when-oops-we failed to turn off the charger prior to disconnecting it from the battery!

We were younger then! And so was battery technology!!

Still....

My two amps arrived this morning. Ran with the M60's for a bit, and now the M40's. Have some Neil Young going and I am impressed....they're soo friggin' small, yet do a pretty good job right out of the box. It's quite hilarious. I'm using a 12V wall wart, but will get a regulated power supply (I don't want to mess around with a car battery and a trickle charger).

I'll be starting the mods soon enough. Fun!

did you run one for each channel? or just one?

I finally used them with M60s yesterday and the thing didn't hold up well with cds that had a lot going on. Simple acoustic singer songwriter stuff sounded great. I used it in battery mode. perhaps they were low as I was using it in a bedroom with Klipsch speakers.