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#91924 - 04/22/05 10:33 PM "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet require
winterpeg Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 88
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
In an ideal, yet realistic, home theatre electrical wiring system, what would be the best set-up.

I am starting from circuit breakers, in-wall wiring, outlets and to protection devices.

Is there an ideal circuit breaker for an amp, sub, receiver, Cd player, DVD player, Cable Box and VCR.

I thought about 4 circuit breakers with four electrical runs to 4 separate dual plug outlets. One for the sub, one for the receiver/amp, one for the seperate amp and one for the projection tv. Each of these would have one other device plugged into the outlet ie; DVD player, CD player, Cable box and VCR.

Does that sound about right? Where and what would be suggested for protection, either in the breaker or between outlet and system plugs?

Would 15 amp cb's work fine? Should I use a larger wire in wall from cb to outlet ie; 10 gauge 2 wire.

Any thoughts or past experiences would be great to hear.

Thanks Troy
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M80 VP150 4-QS8 EP600 Monitor Audio S8 NAD T 773 Anthem MCA3 II Hitachi 57" projection

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#91925 - 04/22/05 11:44 PM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet require
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
Maybe I'm not understanding you, or is it different in the states? I recently wired my basement. For my HT area I installed 1 20 amp circuit breaker, ran 12-2 wiring from the box to my HT room to run all of my equipment, switches, and outlets. I'm no electrician, but did get advice from a few that are, seems like overkill to me? I kept my office/bathroom/hallway on one circuit (15amp), my recroom/bar on another circuit (15amp), and you already know about the HT room.


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M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
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#91926 - 04/23/05 12:34 AM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet require
winterpeg Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 88
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
I am not an electrician either, but I never thought having that much equipment on one circuit would be a safe thing to do. Maybe if you are operating this stuff all at different times, but not all at once.

It seems that there is an awful lot of info out there on the proper power cords and wire capacities and such in regards to amplifiers, sound systems and components.

Does that mean nothing, if you go and overload a single circuit trying to provide power to three seperate amps totalling up to 2000 watts of power and then to try to also power the TV and any other equipment in use. If you don't have enough going in, then you will most certainly not have enough to go out either.

How many high power items are good on a singe circuit. In a kitchen they don't want the single outlets to be powering 2 items at a time, so they wire 1 circuit to each side of the outlet . They are on a 15 amp circuit.

Do they actually recommend putting a complete ht stereo system on a 15 amp circuit?

I maybe a little overboard in my wiring thoughts but it does work out to only 2 items per outlet, mind you they all won't run at once. Maybe only the receiver and it's amp, along with the sub and it's amp and the 3 channel amp for the mains, with a couple others powered at the same time. Seems like a lot to me. Maybe not too much amperage wise, I don't know, "That is why I'm asking for advise here".

I can't see hooking up 8 seperate Ht components to one circuit. It would be a snake pit and possibly a hazard.

I could be wrong here and a little excessive but I want to be safe and sure that everything has the power required to perform to it's full. potential.

If my thinking is wrong, I stand to save a few dollars and learn a bit along the way.

Thanks for your input,
Troy
_________________________
M80 VP150 4-QS8 EP600 Monitor Audio S8 NAD T 773 Anthem MCA3 II Hitachi 57" projection

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#91927 - 04/23/05 12:38 AM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet require
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
RickCathey can probably chime in here, he's an electrical engineer, or an electrician or a sparky of some kind.

I realize you're trying to build the "most kick-a$$" HT you can, going way past what's necessary... but in this case, you're really just adding a bunch of different ground potentials. One or two circuits at 15amp should do you fine. Maybe one for the HT equipment, make it 20 amp if it makes you feel good, save another circuit for the lights (this is almost a must if you're using dimmers!) and quit worrying. If it makes you feel any better just TELL people every single outlet is on it's own circuit breaker and that you're using 2ga. solid uranium in-wall wiring.

Bren R.

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#91928 - 04/23/05 12:46 AM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet require
winterpeg Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 88
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
"2 gauge" I like that one. The guy I bought my Anthem amp from had 200 to 300 dollar power cords and a seperate circuit breaker box just for his HT sound system. He said he sells the power cords as part of his business. After seeing that Ithought you needed a little extra backup to avoid power problems.

Like I said what the heck do I know! That's why I ask smart fella's like yourselves for your opinions.

"Kick ass" is good though. Kind of like the difference between a 454 big block and the 4 cyl hyundia.
You don't drive it all the time, but when you do it is a hell of a lot of fun!

Troy
_________________________
M80 VP150 4-QS8 EP600 Monitor Audio S8 NAD T 773 Anthem MCA3 II Hitachi 57" projection

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#91929 - 04/23/05 12:52 AM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet require
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
In reply to:

"Kick ass" is good though. Kind of like the difference between a 454 big block and the 4 cyl hyundia.
You don't drive it all the time, but when you do it is a hell of a lot of fun!



I'll put it to you another way... Duralube may be great for an oil additive, but don't throw it in your bike if it uses engine oil for the tranny too... hmm... clutch...plates... won't... grab...

Bren R.

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#91930 - 04/23/05 01:02 AM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet require
winterpeg Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 88
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Never used "Duralube" before but I'll take your word for it.
On a serious note; What is your solution to the power requirements. Is it one 15 or 20 amp circuit and plugging all items into a single power bar?

I don't own a 454 big block either, but if you think the system I'm putting together is kickass then I'm happy with that. For those days when the wife is at work and the kids are in school, I will be taking it for a cruise.

"have to clean out the carb once in a while"

Troy
_________________________
M80 VP150 4-QS8 EP600 Monitor Audio S8 NAD T 773 Anthem MCA3 II Hitachi 57" projection

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#91931 - 04/23/05 01:13 AM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet require
winterpeg Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 88
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Hey Bren,

Did you ever get your name on the list for system auditions? I must admit it was great being able to listen the Axium setup prior to ordering. Not many in the region and yours would be a great HT setup as well.

Troy
_________________________
M80 VP150 4-QS8 EP600 Monitor Audio S8 NAD T 773 Anthem MCA3 II Hitachi 57" projection

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#91932 - 04/23/05 01:14 AM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet require
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
In reply to:

On a serious note; What is your solution to the power requirements. Is it one 15 or 20 amp circuit and plugging all items into a single power bar?


Again, I'd say maybe throw the lighting on one circuit and the HT stuff on another. As powerful as we all want to believe our audio stuff is, it's not drawing the same as a 12 amp deep carpet extraction machine or a 3K HMI light or even say, a toaster over (which heats up an element which is pretty much just a resistive short circuit!)... why did I choose those three? I grew up helping with dad's carpet cleaning business, I've lit with HMIs and I used to live in an apartment that hated the fridge and toaster oven on at the same time. Those are fresh in my mind as big offenders.

Plus, everything drawing off a common ground reduces your chance of hum (yes, yes... ground potential changes even between outlets on the same circuit, I know... but it could be worse over multiple circuits).

Bren R.

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#91933 - 04/23/05 01:27 AM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet require
winterpeg Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 88
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Okay Bren,

I guess I'll be saving a little time and $. One circuit is plenty and 2 wire 12 gauge will suffice (but 2 gauge would be better).
I guess the guy I bought the Anthem from was spending somewhere around, I'd be guessing, but atleast a couple of thousand just for show.
I don't expect many folks will see the wiring, although I guess some are quite proud of the wiring bundles they have floating around there systems. I didn't think that was neccessary but, making sure the power was available was one of my concerns. You have broadened my HT scope!

Thanks Bren,
Troy
_________________________
M80 VP150 4-QS8 EP600 Monitor Audio S8 NAD T 773 Anthem MCA3 II Hitachi 57" projection

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#91934 - 04/23/05 01:42 AM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet require
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
In reply to:

I guess the guy I bought the Anthem from was spending somewhere around, I'd be guessing, but atleast a couple of thousand just for show.


Again, maybe wait for a real electrician to chime in on this... I'm probably about on your level - can wire switch runs, and if I have a napkin to jot it down first I can get a 3 way circuit right the first time... but I'm not a sparky myself. I know when our video booth was wired, they took pains to make sure all the audio equipment was on the same circuit (all the video is over SDI so there's no hum worries there).

And remember, I believe CEC states for 15amp/2 conductor you need 14ga. and 12 ga. for 20 amp. Either that or that's NEC.

Bren R.

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#91935 - 04/23/05 08:10 AM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet require
winterpeg Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 88
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Thanks Bren, I am sure there will be some more input from the rest of the crowd.

Troy
_________________________
M80 VP150 4-QS8 EP600 Monitor Audio S8 NAD T 773 Anthem MCA3 II Hitachi 57" projection

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#91936 - 04/23/05 08:48 AM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet require
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6255
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
I have a power center that indicates how much power I'm using. I have 12 items running through this power center, but, of course, the maximum I would have running, at any one time would probably be 6 devices.With everything running full tilt, the 4 Amp light is lit, but the 12 Amp light NEVER gets lit. So, I'm, running somewhere between 4 and 12 amps maximum. I suspect one 15 amp circuit would suffice, and one 20 amp circuit would be more than enough.

And Troy. The company is Axiom, not Axium. I mean no disrespect. Nobody around here takes points off for spelling errors, but ya gotta, at least, get the company name correct.
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#91937 - 04/23/05 09:14 AM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet require
winterpeg Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 88
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Thanks for the spelling correction, they do deserve better. The advice sounds "sound", if I am spelling that right.

My question was truely one of requirement, as I had no idea what was required. Only questioning what I had seen set up, at what I would consider a much more knowledgeable person then I.

Do you have system protection other then the circuit breaker and possible a fuse on your power center? Is your power center an electronic bus bar?

Thanks for your points,
Troy


_________________________
M80 VP150 4-QS8 EP600 Monitor Audio S8 NAD T 773 Anthem MCA3 II Hitachi 57" projection

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#91938 - 04/23/05 11:23 AM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet require
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6255
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
I have the Monster HTS2600 PowerCenter.



I know! I know! I don't believe, for a minute, that it has any effect, at all, on the way my system sounds. And, it's overpriced for what you get. However, I got mine off eBAY for considerably less than list price, but still too much. And, it has a couple of features I really like. The Current Usage indicator is one thing.



It also has two timed outlets which means that when it turns on, my electronics are powered up BEFORE my sub, thereby eliminating any sub driver thump. When the 2600 is turned off the sub turns off first, then the electronics. It also has two unswitched outlets, and six switched, for a total of 10 outlets.

Though it is not controllable with a remote, it has two different ways of linking it to your receiver, or other component, so that it goes on and off when the receiver does.

And, of course, it gives a modicum of peace of mind to know that my equipment has some level of protection.

I like it.
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#91939 - 04/23/05 11:33 AM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet require
winterpeg Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 88
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
What can I say!! Wow, that is one high tech power center. I didn't even know they made that kind of stuff. I guess that using this type of set up provides some real system security and peace of mind. As Bren said earlier, it puts all power through one ground circuit, eliminating unwanted noise distractions.

Cool stuff,
Troy
_________________________
M80 VP150 4-QS8 EP600 Monitor Audio S8 NAD T 773 Anthem MCA3 II Hitachi 57" projection

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#91940 - 04/23/05 11:38 AM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet require
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6255
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
LOL! Monster has 7 PowerCenters, each one more expensive, and feature rich, than the others. Mine is #6, only one away from the bottom of the totem pole. #1 has a MSRP of $1299.99 USD. YIPES!
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#91941 - 04/23/05 09:23 PM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet require
RickCathey Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 67
In reply to:

RickCathey can probably chime in here, he's an electrical engineer, or an electrician or a sparky of some kind.




Bren,

How did you perceive me as an electrician?

Messing with electricity scares the doo doo out of me..LOL

Sorry I wish I could help out here but know nothing related to that line of expertise..

Rick

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#91942 - 04/23/05 11:18 PM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet require
rcvecc Offline
aficionado

Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 608
Loc: east haven ct
i would read the back of eack peice of equiptment and look for how many amps they draw,add them up,and make sure you dont go over the limit for each circut..you might as well throw all 20a breakers in while youre doing it.you might have a little overkill,but it beats coming up short..who knows,you may end up with 5 or 6 ep600s someday

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#91943 - 04/24/05 02:04 AM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet require
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
In reply to:

How did you perceive me as an electrician?


Weren't we talking about grounding and voltage issues about a year ago, thought you mentioned you were an electrician?

Maybe I was drunk.

Bren R.

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#91944 - 04/24/05 02:07 AM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet require
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
I'm a fan of the Furman PM and PL series, we use them in our road racks. Never know what you get for power in a convention or arts centre.

At home, it's a 6 way power tap straight into the wall. I takes me chances, har!

Bren R.

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#91945 - 04/24/05 02:19 AM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet req
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
In reply to:

Maybe I was drunk.


At this point, the only assumption I make about you happens when you're making sense. It's then that I assume you're not drunk.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#91946 - 04/24/05 02:47 AM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet req
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
In reply to:

At this point, the only assumption I make about you happens when you're making sense. It's then that I assume you're not drunk.


The funniest part about that post is... I hardly drink anymore. Hard to get your 4L of caffeinated beverage into you in a day when you water it down with alcohol!

Bren R.

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#91947 - 04/24/05 03:03 AM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet req
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
I can't imagine how many trips to the bathroom you take in one day...
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#91948 - 04/24/05 03:08 AM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet req
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
One - but it erodes porcelain.

Bren R.

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#91949 - 04/24/05 03:25 AM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet req
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
kidneystones, much?
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#91950 - 04/24/05 07:30 AM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet require
real80sman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 1127
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Ok, please bear with me. I am NOT an electrician, but I do all my own wiring, and have installed furnaces and 240v central A/C's (part time) for the past 21years.

I beleive the power cord and internal wiring of most electrical appliances is rated to handle 15A and thats it. In fact most of them will never draw anywhere near that current. The circuit breaker in your home is designed to be the weakest link in the chain. If you plug that appliance into a 20A circuit, then the wiring in the appliance is now the weakest link. What happens if said appliance develops a dead short? It is relying on your circuit breaker to trip. If it doesn't trip, then the heat will continue build inside the appliance until something weaker BURNS OUT. Read **POTENTIAL FIRE**.

You could run heavier wire if it makes you feel better, but I certainly wouldn't put a bigger breaker in.

Sidenote - Most electronic devices have their own built-in fuses, so my "Fire Scare" may not apply. I still wouldn't install the bigger breaker though.

Shawn

_________________________
Shawn

Epic 80/600 + M3's + Custom Finish Algonquin V3's

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#91951 - 04/24/05 11:49 AM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet require
RickCathey Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 67
Bren,

No it wasn't me. You must have been thinking of someone else.

That's ok..I know it's the first time you have ever been wrong in your life. LOL

That first time is always a heart breaking feeling knowing that your perfect record has been broken

Rick

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#91952 - 04/24/05 01:25 PM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet req
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4850
Loc: western canada
That's pretty funny.

_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#91953 - 04/24/05 10:11 PM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet require
winterpeg Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 88
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Avoiding the potential for overheat and being capable of running the system without worry's of finding the weakest link are my goal here. If one 15 amp circuit, used solely for the HT system will do it, combined with a power bar that has excellent protection, I'll be one happy camper.

The reason I ask this wiring question, is that I am working on my drawings for the electrical permit I require to complete the wiring in the basement.

Thanks for the input thus far,
Troy
_________________________
M80 VP150 4-QS8 EP600 Monitor Audio S8 NAD T 773 Anthem MCA3 II Hitachi 57" projection

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#91954 - 04/25/05 10:13 AM Re: "Power Supply"----breaker box to HT outlet require
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
Lucky for me, my county does not require an electrical permit, nor do you have to be a licsensed electrician to complete the job. It really is pretty easy once you get started and get some advice from friends that are familiar with this type of work.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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