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#94501 - 05/16/05 12:21 PM Amplifiers
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
I have just finished reading Alan's newsletter article about amplification. My question is. Wouldn't you want to match receiver /amp power to be closer to the high end of speaker power rating (max to max)? Isn't using 120 watts @8 ohm to drive 250 watt @ 8 ohm speakers like using a vw engine in a suburban? Maybe I am too new to this. It seems to me that it would be more efficient to use a 120 watt receiver to power M2i as opposed to M60.

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#94502 - 05/16/05 01:04 PM Re: Amplifiers
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
In reply to:

Isn't using 120 watts @8 ohm to drive 250 watt @ 8 ohm speakers like using a vw engine in a suburban? Maybe I am too new to this. It seems to me that it would be more efficient to use a 120 watt receiver to power M2i as opposed to M60.


I'll use 120 and 240 watts (just to make the mental calculations easier)... say the 120W receiver has to run at 10% of capacity to get a good listening level - the 240W amp would be running at 5% of capacity.

Bren R.

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#94503 - 05/16/05 01:17 PM Re: Amplifiers
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
I understand. What capacity does a receiver or amp run to get listening levels? What capacity to generate reference pink noise?

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#94504 - 05/16/05 01:24 PM Re: Amplifiers
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
Your running 175 watt speakers with an 80 amp. How many watt produce ambient 65Db? or reference 105Db?

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#94505 - 05/16/05 02:02 PM Re: Amplifiers
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10899
Loc: Central NH
The wattage rating for speakers is a mostly useless term. It's not a recommendation for wattage, but a rough recommendation for maximum wattage. (Even at that, it's somewhat pointless as many more speakers are damaged by an underpowered amp driven into clipping than a more powerful amp that's not clipping).

It's important to remember that at most listening volumes, you're using under ten watts... very often under 1 watt. In reality, there's very little difference in volume capability between a 120 watt amp and a 240 watt amp.

Finally, it's the efficiency or sensitivity of the speaker that matters most. If a speaker is very sensitive, producing for example 96dB SPL with a one watt input, the needed amplifier wattage will be much lower than a less efficient speaker that maybe only produces 86dB SPL with the same 1-watt input.

It's more important, when trying to decide on a suitable amplifier, to look at the speaker sensitivity, room size and how loud you like to listen than to base anything at all on the "wattage rating" of a speaker!
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#94506 - 05/16/05 03:50 PM Re: Amplifiers
BrenR Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3602
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
Mark pretty much got 'er there.

The QS8s, for instance, are rated for a "maximum" rating of 400W... will they handle more clean power than that? Of course... but that's a nice conservative estimate. Will they get damaged by being driven by a much smaller but clipping source - probably.

If you want an idea of how much power is needed to push your cones in and out, ask some of the tube-ers around here. Most of them are in the 5W-20W range.

Bren R.

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#94507 - 05/16/05 04:43 PM Re: Amplifiers
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
Mark/Bren. OK 10 watts to push my 60's with a Denon 3805. So why have an amp? I'm not trying to be stubborn. You only need amps to listen to really loud music? A 10dB increase in sound requires ten times the power (from Alan's newsletter). Since I don't know how much power I'm really using but the sound is not strained, I don't need to bother?

Ever since I started reading these boards I've learned a lot from members and I thank you for it. I sometimes stay at the computer late at night reading older posts here and other forums (Outlaw, S&V, Audioholics etc). I sit here and hear/feel the rumble of the EP500 while my son watches a DVD. I am beginning to understand what I have been missing all these years. Now I want to understand and buy the proper equipment to make the most of it.

I love my Axioms. But these are relative inexpensive as speakers go. I'm just beginning to wonder what a pair of speakers that cost $10,000 - 15 and much more sound like.



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#94508 - 05/16/05 05:19 PM Re: Amplifiers
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
I have a Kenwood KA9100 integrated amp in my garage system (now that I've elevated the modified T Amp to in-hours status). The KA9100 has twin power meters and drives a pair of 87db efficient (not very efficient but great sounding speakers) Dahlquist DQM905s. I have never seen the meter indicate output of greater than 5 watts per channel. I don't play head banging music at deafening levels, but I'll get the jazz and Eric Clapton going pretty good.
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#94509 - 05/16/05 06:07 PM Re: Amplifiers
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

I used to have a Kenwood Basic M2A ( 2x220 ) power amp with the meters on it and I would amost always have that thing pushing over a 100 watts.Heck the darn thing would peak in the upper 200 watt range.Maybe I just listen at insane volumes because I couldn't see a little 10 or 20 watt amp in my system.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#94510 - 05/16/05 08:16 PM Re: Amplifiers
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
Sound Level Chart
If this chart is correct then M60 would be loud at 10? and very loud at 250. I am reading this correctly?

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