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#94621 - 06/12/05 01:26 PM Re: Amplifiers
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5256
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
>>More than enough power (110) and 5.1. Good speakers (like his ventriloquist) and good sub (like his middle range 399.00 model) and I'd have all I needed.

Reality check...

The Kenwood is definitely all the amp you need for Ventriloquists or anything in that range. They are great speakers for the money but let's be realistic, they are in a totally different league from the midrange or high-end Axioms.

Going to a bigger/better amp or receiver *is* going to make a difference in sound assuming you are using a fair amount of the available power. If you have small speakers and listening to relatively quiet music then an upgrade wouldn't make much difference.

When we discourage people from rushing into an electronics upgrade it's because the benefit/$$ ratio is relatively small-- not because there is no difference at all.

Every incremental improvement in sound costs a lot more than the one before it. Several people have looked back with the same concerns as you -- "could I have spent less and been just as happy ?".

Don't worry, the answer is "nope". Now, could you have spent less and been 80% as happy ? Quite possibly, depending on your listening habits. If you put on carefully chosen media, sit in the sweet spot, turn up the volume and bask in the sound, you would be a lot less happy with a lesser system.

If you put something on, wander off and listen to the music from another room while you work on something else... yeah, you could have spent quite a bit less and still be happy.

Where are you on that line ?

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#94622 - 06/12/05 02:22 PM Re: Amplifiers
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
<<As it is, I'm happy, the wife's happy, the son's jumping up and down happy.>>

I'm not looking back! I'm happy I made the change. Most of the time CDs are just background. HT, a different matter. I don't go to the movies because my system is better than their's. (Well maybe some movies...Star Wars) I'll wait for the dvd. As soon as HD dvd comes out, whatever format, I'll be looking to buy. It may mean all new HD dvds. The plasma WILL fail. I'm already scouting DLP's.

I'm spoiled and I know it. So are my wife and children. I've worked hard and am enjoying the results.

Dr. Hsu, Alan, Ian, you on the forum. Nobody knows the level of our fortunes or misfortunes. I like the way the advice has always started. "Based on your room, here's what you NEED." I respond "Here's what I'd like". Reply, "here's what is cost". Then I decide what I can afford.

Many forum members start by telling what receiver they have and want to know what speaker will work. Alan says if they have 80 to 100 watts, they can drive most of Axiom's speakers.

I have way more than I need. Could I have been happy with less? Sure. It's moot at this point.

Now I'll throw up!




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#94623 - 06/12/05 10:01 PM Re: Amplifiers
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10309
Bernard, after reading your post I made one of my rare visits to the Outlaw "Saloon" to read that thread. The discussion there is a bit tangled-up and doesn't cover the FTC requirements clearly. The link you gave here is certainly worth reading for those who may react with interest(or horror)in seeing an example of how government regulations are made, but the full text of the amplifier reg isn't included. Another FTC discussion more directly bearing on the question of how many channels driven is found here. Note that the interpretation of "all associated channels" as meaning two, which was the case when the reg was first promulgated in 1974 is still in effect. There has been no further action on the question for about four years now, although the Commission has left it open.

So, as we discussed before, the requirement is two channels driven, along with the other described requirements. Of course manufacturers can, and some do, choose to state an all channels driven spec if it's arrived at in compliance with the written requirements for the test.
_________________________
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#94624 - 06/12/05 10:23 PM Re: Amplifiers
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
Kind of makes you wonder how many lobbyist are involved.

Rat: This could get out of hand.



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#94625 - 06/12/05 11:48 PM Re: Amplifiers
ratpack Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 1155
Loc: Alabama
Thanks John!

I am going to send a tech note to the Outlaw tech support and ask them about all 7 channels driven simultaneously to 100 watts. I agree with you that only 2 are, but there is a difference of opinion on that board. I'll ask and find out what ground truth is.
_________________________
The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV

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#94626 - 06/13/05 01:02 AM Re: Amplifiers
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10309
Bernard, actually I didn't comment on the Outlaw amp before, just on the general requirement; but since their spec is "all channels driven", that means simultaneously at full rated power for at least 5 continuous minutes. At one point in the reg after "all channels" it uses the term "simultaneously" and at another point it doesn't, but it certainly has to be interpreted in that way. Again, this whole "all associated channels driven" test is a laboratory torture test that would never be remotely duplicated in home use.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#94627 - 06/13/05 07:29 AM Re: Amplifiers
ratpack Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 1155
Loc: Alabama
John: agreed, that all channels simultaneously to full power is a test that I would probably NOT use at my home. But, it would be an indicator of how rugged the amp is. And, that is what I am looking for right now, indicators/ metrics to compare one piece of gear to another.

In any case, I've learned a lot reading all of those articles. I thought that they were quite interesting even if the FTC rules were "difficult" to read.
_________________________
The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV

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