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#99342 - 06/18/05 10:03 AM "Rubber" on the drivers.........
LT61 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 836
Loc: Illinois.
Hello, everybody!

I have a question for Axiom, OR one of the more "technical" members here...
(i.e. John K.)..........(NOT the guy from Steppenwolf).

In the event they find a cure for "upgradeitus".........or
the "secret" speakers Chesseroo is so often mentioning, are not "M60 type replacements"......or somehow, I'm sent a brand new set of FREE Rocket speakers,.....(insider board humor)....I will be keeping my Axiom's ....a LONG, LONG, time.

So my question is this:
How well does the type of rubber on the "Axiom type drivers" hold up over time?
Does it go thru a "polymerization treatment" or is it a neoprene type material?

Here in Florida, the climate is brutal on many things.... especially "rubber products".(no Pmbuko, my speakers are NOT outside).

Anyhoo, I don't recall seeing posts about this, so I was wondering.

LT (STILL groovin', while tryin' movin') 61.

_________________________
LIFE: "Choices, balance, and timing"

(Larryism)

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#99343 - 06/18/05 10:14 AM Re: "Rubber" on the drivers.........
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5433
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Good question, although I doubt any of us will know the answer. There are a few people on the board who have had foam surrounds rot out over the (20-ish) years but I don't remember hearing about failure of rubber surrounds on any speaker -- Axiom or other.

Axiom has been in business quite a while but probably nowhere near long enough to see any degeneration-related surround failures.

Dumb question for you -- what is it about the Florida climate that could affect rubber products indoors ? I know the heat and humidity can get pretty brutal in the fall but I can't imagine them being bad enough to affect the longevity of a rubber product unless you throw sun into the mix.

P.S. I always thought Houston did a better job of making fun of the weather, famous for the morning "race to 100", ie will the temperature or the relative humidity hit 100 first ?

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#99344 - 06/18/05 12:09 PM Re: "Rubber" on the drivers.........
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4832
Loc: western canada
Hey i never mentioned secret speakers per se, i just mentioned secrets.
It could be that Axiom is working on a new car, or car audio, or in-walls, or new colours, or new peripherals like a world class universal remote to be named The A.M.I.E. (Automatic Mode Is Easy or....other varations).

As for the rubber, well, let's just say that by the time that rubber breaks down (unless your speakers are sitting in the sun) you likely won't be around to see it or notice any audio change b/c of it.

_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#99345 - 06/18/05 12:11 PM Re: "Rubber" on the drivers.........
FordPrefect Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 1334
Loc: Ancaster, Ontario
Might depend on whether or not the rubber is Michelin or Bridgestone.

we really need a "rolls eyes" smilie.
_________________________
getting to 2,000 posts; one year at a time vp160/qs8/qs4/ep350/m60/m2200s

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#99346 - 06/18/05 12:20 PM Re: "Rubber" on the drivers.........
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4832
Loc: western canada
How about this one Ford?



or even this



or maybe go with the classics


_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#99347 - 06/18/05 12:22 PM Re: "Rubber" on the drivers.........
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
I think rubber like driver surrounds deteriorates with lack of use and dry conditions over decades of non-use. Long time since HS chemistry.

I have a 30 year old pair of Criterion speakers that still have good rubber surrounding the drivers.





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#99348 - 06/18/05 11:20 PM Re: "Rubber" on the drivers.........
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10406
Larry, although my undergraduate degree is a B.S. in Chemistry, anymore anything much more complicated than H3O(or whatever they call that stuff)throws me. The "rubber" in rubber surrounds is generally actually synthetic butyl rubber(polyisobutylene)which has a very high resistance to deterioration in normal use. The useful lifetime should be measured in terms of several decades.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#99349 - 06/18/05 11:46 PM Re: "Rubber" on the drivers.........
ratpack Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 1155
Loc: Alabama
Haven't thought about it until I read this thread, but what are the wear mechanisms for speakers. How long should they last?

Just something to think about?!!!??
_________________________
The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV

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#99350 - 06/19/05 12:01 AM Re: "Rubber" on the drivers.........
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
As said earlier, the 30 year speakers still put out good sound. I have them laid on the floor pointing up as possible rears. I would think paper cones would go first. The new synthetics and metals should last longer than the cabinets.

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#99351 - 06/19/05 01:00 AM Re: "Rubber" on the drivers.........
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4832
Loc: western canada
H3O as in heavy water John?

Butylene is a double bonded structure (think butane but with 2 bonds) with the iso meaning the double bond is in the middle of the 4 carbon chain (C2 and C3 bond), otherwise surrounded by hydrogen except at the chain points which attach to other butylene atoms (hence the word poly for polymer...chain of same structured compounds).
Its short chain likely gives it the elastic properties but its simplistic nature gives it stability yet not total environmental resistance. It will breakdown over time, but it would need some harsh influences to do so. UV light is one such element. Caustic cleaning agents are another.
Stick to dish soap and water for the cabinent cleaning. Vinyl wipes up nice.
I do use natural oils on my wood veneers though.

_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#99352 - 06/19/05 02:21 AM Re: "Rubber" on the drivers.........
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17791
Loc: NoVA
Actually, AFAIK, H3O doesn't exist; heavy water is D2O (or di-deuterium oxide) aka water with 2 extra neutrons. Oxygen doesn't have any spare electrons to form the third bond with hydrogen called for by JohnK's formula.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#99353 - 06/19/05 04:25 AM Re: "Rubber" on the drivers.........
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10406
Of course I was just kidding around that I couldn't even remember H2O(there is actually a positively charged hydronium cation with a hydrogen ion and water molecule equaling H3O+), but curiosity led me to investigate, and the magic of Google brought me this wondrous product. When I rushed to order, however, I discovered that the store, tragically, had been "temporarily closed".
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#99354 - 06/20/05 12:37 PM Re: "Rubber" on the drivers.........
LT61 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 836
Loc: Illinois.
Bridgman:

I dunno, between the heat, humidity, and salt air........rot, tarnish, rust etc. eventually find their way inside.

Cheeseroo:

With those lower case i's in your first post............I thought Big John had started "ghost posting" for you.

Fordperfect:

What about Firestone?.......Would the speakers blow out?

John K.:

Thank's for the info.
I thought the drivers would be fine over time........but, this is my first experience with those type of aluminum speakers.....and I'm a wondering kinda guy.

P.S.

If the "rubber" was the silicone impregnated type,........ what would the offspring be?

Larry
_________________________
LIFE: "Choices, balance, and timing"

(Larryism)

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#99355 - 06/20/05 02:11 PM Re: "Rubber" on the drivers.........
BBIBH Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 1049
Loc: Canada
I have a pair of AX3's that had the surround separated from the cone.
Luckily they were covered under Axioms warranty and replaced with newer drivers.
_________________________
Regards,

Mike

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#99356 - 08/09/05 01:59 PM Re: "Rubber" on the drivers.........
rlev Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/09/05
Posts: 1
I have some Mission 700 I bought back in '81 ... the rubber on both speakers has deteriorated and no longer can hold the cone. These were pretty good speakers when I bought them. Usually rubber dries out ... these look more like they thinned to nothing.

Mission no longer produces quality stuff any more ... only junk IMHO.

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#99357 - 08/10/05 02:15 PM Re: "Rubber" on the drivers.........
donjuanmiguel Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/03/04
Posts: 132
Might depend on whether or not the rubber is Michelin or Bridgestone.

and if they are placed on a Ford...

Easy now, I own 2 Fords...


Edited by donjuanmiguel (08/10/05 02:17 PM)
_________________________
Axiom stuff, Denon stuff, & Sony stuff

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#99358 - 01/06/06 10:11 PM Re: "Rubber" on the drivers.........
dan_the_man Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 29
LMAO, i agree
_________________________
marantz sr-6300 m-60's vp100 qs-4's svs 20-39

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