Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Comparing the 350 to the 500...

Well...daughters are watching Harry Potter #3 and while I was in the shower I could feel what they were watching...The itch has been scratched.

Was it worth the extra dough? That's hard to say. If I did not have the extra cash I probably would not have upgraded and I certainly wouldn not have looked elsewhere. You know, the WAF. The matching finish is fantastic. If I knew how to include photos in a post I would to give you an idea how well they match everthing. I guess to answer your question, yeah, it was worth it. I'd much rather waite for a movie to hit DVD and see at home than see it on the big screen.

Hope that helps,
John

My sentiments exactly on the dvds. I'll wait for the summer movies on dvd and really enjoy then at home.

A HSU STF-2 will go to 25 hz -/+ 3 dB, 3 dB deeper than the ep350, and costs about $250 less, and is also a quick and accurate sub. A VTF-3 would trounce the ep350, and after the turbocharger comes out, could probably go head to head with the ep500.

I just got my axiom speakers so I'm not bashing them, but the subs seem a bit overpriced..

In reply to:

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The Epicenter EP500 is the first subwoofer of its size to truly go down to a couch-shaking 19 Hz in an anechoic environment.

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Velodyne, HSU, and SVS are three companies who have done this. I'm sure the TN1220 tubes from HSU and the svs box ultras can do this easily, at 100 dB, outside. They've been tested to do so also. Of course it's a good accomplishment, yet to say they're the first is like panasonic claiming they made the first DVD player that supported surround sound. It's ridiculous and not factual.

I'm not saying the EP500 is a bad sub. Audioholics loved it. I'm saying that with the ep350.. you could get much more for the same price, and that the marketing on the ep500 is misleading.

Thasp - Take a deep breath and smile. Specs without some form of testing are not a good way in which to compare subwoofers.

>>Velodyne, HSU, and SVS are three companies who have done this

Sure, but in fairness all of those are bigger than the EP500. The 500 is 19.5 x 19.5 x 15 (5700 in^3) while an SVS PB12-Ultra (for example) is 25 x 25 x 18, almost twice the volume. Even the entry level PB10-ISD is bigger than the EP500. I think Axiom's claims are correct.

A better question is "what else can you get for the same $$ as an EP500 ?". I don't think we know the answer for sure, but at first glance the 500 probably does outperform the low end SVS boxes both in terms of power and performance. The question is how far up the SVS (or Hsu, or Velodyne) line you have to go to match the 500's performance.

Axiom doesn't have the whole sub line covered in the sense that they don't have a "big dumb sub" -- the 350 is the biggest before the DSPs and the big amps come out to play. I ended up with an SVS 20-39PC+ (almost exactly twice as big as an EP500) before the Axiom subs came out... roughly the same price as the EP500 up here. My guess is that the SVS still gives a bit more "bass for the buck" in terms of how loud it can play, but the Axiom DSP gives the 500 some advantages which might make it more satisfying overall, particularly more civilized behaviour at the limits (BTW I have already found the limits of the SVS, although the house starts to make some really scary buzzes and rattles long before the SVS starts to give in ).

Charles
Once you get your 10" SVS and had a chance to play with it, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts of how it compares with the 10" HSU.

I'm considering getting a 10"er for 2 channel music upstairs in the family room. I have the SVS in my relatively small basement HT room and love it (mostly use it for movies) but wonder if there is much difference in sound between the two (particulerly for music).

Paul

Hi Mark,

Sorry, busy with the Axiom newsletter.

It comes down to a matter of bass extension and real output (the EP350 does not use a DSP). When there is genuine low-frequency information on the DVD soundtrack, other subs that don't use a DSP often poop out in the upper 20-Hz region, despite the claims. The roll-off in extension and output is relatively steep, and you can hear that in side-by-side comparisons.

The EP500's DSP "linearizes" its low-frequency output, so that when there is content at 20 Hz, the impact can be dramatic because there is no significant roll-off in the EP500's output.

By the way, the soundtrack mix and low-frequency content on the re-make of "Flight of the Phoenix" is spectacular. The low-frequency content during the C-119's flight through the desert sandstorm (and subsequent crash) is wonderfully realistic; terrifying in fact. While I live in a ground-floor apartment (nothing except the basement beneath my unit), I was frankly worried that the low-frequency content would offend others in my building. That DVD is highly recommended (the movie is decent). It's filmed in the Gobi desert, and the original soundtrack uses these low-frequency African sounds.

To answer Bridgeman, the DSP code for the EP500 is programmed to prevent the digital amp from supplying more power once the DSP senses that distortion limits/and/or voice-coil excursion would be exceeded if the amp did supply more power. It's sort of a very sophisticated limiter.

Regards,

I did some research through the forums to help me make my decision whether to go with the standard EP350 or opt for the EP500. Honestly, I didn't really find negative comments about either one (except for price) but one thing that came out were all the questions just like the one in this thread. The fact that EP350 owners were questioning about whether or not to upgrade was my deciding factor to go with the EP500. I have not been disappointed. The sub blew my Velodyne off the carpet. This is my third complete home theatre system upgrade and it is most satisfying. In fact I dare say it will even be my last. It's like getting behind the wheel of 60's muscle car. A desire to upgrade my main system is not even on my list of things to do anymore. It's that good. I have my volume limit on my main amp set to "75" (it peaks around 120). At 75 I have to yell into the person's ear next to me to be heard. The sub is so strong it knocks (vibrates) nick-knacks off the shelves (in the kitchen). After tuning in the surrounds (which did take some work) I went to place the EP500. The very first place I set it is where it still is. The only problem I had was something to do with a 60 Hz hum because it was on a different circuit from the amp. I fixed that by running a 10ga extension back to the main power strip.

I made 3-5 trips per week to area "audiophile” type places (not Fry’s or Best Buy) over 2 months before I made a decision. The runner up was $4K Velodyne so this was a no-brainer (the closest main speakers were $5500/pr, ouch!). There are plenty of strong subs on the market but the EP500 is clean and pure and the punch is effortless. I don’t have the question anymore of whether it needs to be louder. After finishing a DVD like “Ray” I’m literally sitting back in awe. I'm glad I made the upgrade to the EP500. Not only is immensely satisfying, the look and feel match too. As far as physical volume, it's big enough. Any larger it would take the place of a piece of furniture.


Main M80ti (2)
Cent VP150
Surr QS8 (4)
Sub EP500
Onkyo TX-NR801
Mitsubishi 62” HD-DLP
Seating 7pc leather home theatre recliners

Paul,
First comments on the new SVS 10". It's physically larger than the HSU so there is more volume in the unit. It's deeper and louder at lower levels and I think it has a fuller sound. It enhances my music and I can feel this one much more than I did the HSU. The HSU was a great sub but I believe this SVS is a better, more powerful sub. Now I'm thinking upgrade!! Yipes...

cgolf,

Just wondering -- how big is your room (L, W & H)? How "full" is the room with bass. You mentioned you could feel it better than with the old model -- how much? I really want to feel the bass and am looking at nothing smaller than a 12" Sub (single driver that is) because of my room size.

These are the models I am considering:

- Axion EP500: $1150
- Velodyne DLS4000: $699
- HSU VTF-3 MK 2: $699
- SVS PV-12 Plus (Plus because I like the Maple finish -- something for the WAF): $999

My budget is < $1000 for the sub --if I can find something I really like.

I like the "feel" the sub pressure in the room. My room is 15 x 17 x ~9 (8' vaults to 10') -- about 2500 cu/ft.