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Re: EP-600 Review thread.
#109227 09/15/05 08:14 PM
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The area that I am in the process of developing into my HT is a basement room that is divided with the HT on one side and a wetbar game-table area on the other. Each area is about 15x20 sharing an open border. I don't know if the open area to the left of the HT area matters, but with all of this talk of "moving air" with the speakers, it seems that it would have some impact.


"Never, never, never give up "... Winston Churchill
Re: EP-600 Review thread.
#109228 09/15/05 11:06 PM
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That reminds me of a third reason people buy multiple subs... it's hard to predict exactly what you are going to need, so one good strategy is to buy something less than a big monster sub (but still get something that will go deep into the bass) and add a second one if the first one turns out to be a bit too small but otherwise good.

Note that this only makes sense if you start with a fairly capable sub in the first place. Two cheap subs do not equal one good sub -- even 500 cheap subs will not be able to reproduce the really low notes.


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Re: EP-600 Review thread.
#109229 09/16/05 12:36 AM
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Sounds like good advice... but sometimes it's really difficult to pass on what you really lust for. But then, I'm getting off the subject.


"Never, never, never give up "... Winston Churchill
Re: EP-600 Review thread.
#109230 09/16/05 01:09 AM
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Yeah... I guess we're kinda drifting off the thread topic as well

Craig, thanks very much for organizing this. I only knew enough about the EP600 to be able to say "dang, that's nice" !!


M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
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Re: EP-600 Review thread.
#109231 09/16/05 01:14 AM
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Since I usually hijack my own threads, you guys go ahead and have fun. This IS a hobby, afterall ...

This is a fun process. I wonder if Ian would consider building a QUAD 600 sub ... maybe 72 inches long, 30 inches tall, and 18 inches deep. Four x 12 inch drivers, and porting to match.

Hay - a guy can ASK ... right ?

Re: EP-600 Review thread.
#109232 09/16/05 01:54 AM
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Not an altogether far fetched idea, that is the quad-sub concept. SVS has a limited edition "B12+4" offering that sounds like may have sparked your challenge for a quad-4 600 from Axiom,eh? Why stop there, Axiom is working on "in-the-wall" hybrid speakers, why not a mega-sub that would be a built-in that would rattle the rafters. I can't imagine more resonance than the whole room. But I digress.

Last edited by cgrface; 09/16/05 02:00 AM.

"Never, never, never give up "... Winston Churchill
Re: EP-600 Review thread.
#109233 09/16/05 02:05 AM
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We had a B4 + here last year. Pretty nice sub. But what made me think about a Quad 600 was how good a single 600 sounded ...

Re: EP-600 Review thread.
#109234 09/16/05 02:13 AM
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What really gets me excited about the integration of a good sub(s) is that it takes music/video and moves it beyond aural/visual/cerebral and integrates physical presence into the experience. Therefore, the more forceful the sub, the more moving the experience. Yea, more is definately better, at least until the cops arrive. Or your wife leaves. Whoa, got way too carried away with that one... A Quad-600 would definately do the job!

Last edited by cgrface; 09/16/05 02:15 AM.

"Never, never, never give up "... Winston Churchill
Re: EP-600 Review thread.
#109235 11/06/05 09:09 PM
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Any new developments / thoughts with this Craig? I tried to read the AVS thread, but couldn't make it pass the 4th page.

I have no idea what the hell's going on with all that banter.


Re: EP-600 Review thread.
#109236 11/06/05 09:52 PM
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I just finished reading the whole thread (took almost 2 hours and I read pretty fast) and didn't learn anything past about the 10th page. The executive summary is :

- Craig and Ilkka both did excellent reviews; Craig focused more on listening tests while Ilkka focused more on measurements

- They came to somewhat different conclusions. The main issue was THD; Ilkka's THD numbers on the 600 were suspiciously high, to the point where many suspected a problem with the measurements. Ilkka concluded the problem was "Axiom's wimpy driver", which seems both premature and probably wrong to me

- many pages of vitriol, including accusations that both Craig and Ilkka had falsified their measurements to let their favorite vendor win. To me, this seems insane and childish to boot; both are doing this as a hobby; neither would even consider fudging the numbers to affect the outcome

- several pages of confusion between "Axiom confirmed that the EP600 was typical" and "Axiom agrees with all my measurements" resulting in nearly everyone being pissed off

- it does seem possible that the spiffy DSP firmware in the 500/600 is kicking in on test tones (but not on real movie/music content) and mucking up the results. Axiom has revised the firmware at least once to fine-tune the limiter code which some interpreted as an improvement and others claimed were a clear sign that Axiom was shipping defective product. Not worthy of comment unless you think Axiom is the only company to ever release a firmware upgrade

- there has apparently been a slight change in the port characteristics on the 600. Details are conflicting -- seems to involve lowering the tune point a few Hz, which presumably might require a corresponding update in the DSP firmware

- a couple of EP600 owners piped in, including at least one owner ("jakeman") who also owns an SVS Ultra. Jakeman contacted Axiom to get more info and ended up visiting (he lives pretty close to them) which inflamed the avsforum people even more

- decision to organize an impartial test at NRC, presumably initiated by Craig (I'm guessing here), with invitations sent to both Axiom and SVS in case they want to participate directly

- another round of muck-raking, to the point where now people are questioning whether the NRC would be impartial because Ian used to be involved with their research (as were the technical leads of Paradigm, PSB and Energy)

- a couple of suggestions that a fist-fight between Craig and Ilkka might settle things

- a side discussion on body fat % that I still don't fully understand

Anyways, hopefully this will all settle down. After reading 23 pages of posts my personal impressions haven't changed at all, being :

- if you ripped out the DSP from the EP600 and just compared hardware, the Ultra would probably outperform the 600 by a small margin in terms of maximum clean SPL around 20 Hz. Since Ilkka's tests focused on single tones, his conclusions leaned the same way. Even so, his THD readings (>10 % at pretty much all frequencies and SPLs) seem suspect. There was some discussion that background noise (wind ?) might have been a factor.

- playing real content, the 600 seems to be a stellar performer and multiple people have indicated that it seems to outperform an Ultra in many listening tests, giving the perception of more headroom and more useful output over the Ultra

Which is better ? No easy answer there.


M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
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