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How many watts per channel do I really need?
#114661 11/01/05 02:28 PM
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I have a M22/QS-8/VP-100/EP-175 setup. My receiver is a H/K AVR-120. I am wondering, has it come time to upgrade to a more powerful receiver?

I was at a friend's place last night. He has an Onkyo receiver that does 100 wpc, plus he had full sized Paradigms vs. my "bookshelf" M22s. His system just FELT so much more powerful than mine.

Side note, his room is also half the size of mine. He sits like 6 feet from the t.v., I sit like 15 feet away. Is it possible that adide from the power, it's the distance?

Will having a much more powerful receiver boost the feeling of power?






------- Saint Harman Kardon AVR-120,Axiom VP100,Axiom M22Ti, Axiom QS8, Axiom EP-175
Re: How many watts per channel do I really need?
#114662 11/01/05 02:36 PM
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I would upgrade your sub first.

If your room is largish, and his is smallish, and you have bookshelves and he has floorstanders, I think you might more likely be "underspeakered" more than underpowered. If his system "felt" more powerful, I would be looking for a bigger/more powerful sub.

Ask yourself this: If you had a sub like the 500, would your system feel more powerful? Not only would you be reaching much deeper than your 175, but the additional power of the 500 handling all the bass would free up your receiver's reserves quite a bit.

I think you would have to have a HUGE jump in amplification to "feel" your M22s more.... and I think even then the results would only be slight in comparison to the dramatic difference of a bigger sub.


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: How many watts per channel do I really need?
#114663 11/01/05 04:40 PM
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In reply to:

How many watts per channel do I really need?




How much can you afford?

I'm not in the mega watt club but I do like to have somewhere close to 200 true watts per if I can. Do I need it?............nope but I can so why the heck not!

Re: How many watts per channel do I really need?
#114664 11/01/05 04:58 PM
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What kind of listening were you doing? Music or HT? To piggyback on Mark's comments, I have the M22s & EP175, and there was a noticable difference when I added my HSU sub. However (and I have nothing to back up this assertion), I do feel like there's just a greater presence that you can only get with floorstanding speakers.

And someone chime in here, please -- my understanding is that (with the exception of occasional peaks), most amps really aren't working all that hard under normal listening conditions.


M22ti mains, EP175 sub, VP150 center, QS4 surrounds
Re: How many watts per channel do I really need?
#114665 11/01/05 05:14 PM
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dmn23,

When I've A/B'd the M22s with the M80ti's, both running with the EP500 sub, the term I sometimes use is "more authoritative" for the M80s. It's especially true if you just run the two pairs in stereo with the sub at loudness levels that are higher than I would normally listen at.

The M80s' total of 12 drivers simply aren't "working" as hard as the little M22s' six drivers. These differences become increasingly apparent as the room size goes up and your listening distance increases.

As to power requirements, the old adage "you can never have too much power" still applies, but it really varies so much with personal taste and room size as well as the source material you are playing. Some of my colleagues can shut down five monoblocs delivering 300 watts per channel (I had to leave the room!).

I've never felt comfortable having less than about 80 to 100 watts per channel if I'm listening to music (or DVD soundtracks) with a wide dynamic range.

Regards,


Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert (Retired)
Re: How many watts per channel do I really need?
#114666 11/01/05 06:18 PM
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I just ordered my M22Ti's after realizing M60's were too much to afford for the forseeable future. My room is fairly small, 10' wide by about 15' long. I sit 13' back and hope to get "bigger" sound than what I have gotten with my Atlantic Technology 250.1. The front three speakers only have 4" drivers and with M60's out of the question, I thought the 5.25" drivers in the M22's and VP150 would serve me well for a few years. I can still cancel the order but part of me says my AT speakers don't sound THAT bad so this should still be an improvement.

How big a room can M22's handle?

Greg

Re: How many watts per channel do I really need?
#114667 11/01/05 06:26 PM
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My room is 12.5' x 25', but I'm sitting about 8 or 9 feet away from the M22s. I was listening to Jamie Cullum's Twentysomething while I was poking around the house and waiting for little monsters to show up at my door. The sound was full, rich, loud and not strained in the least. Pair them with a nice sub and you shouldn't be disappointed at all. But if you can make yourself budget and wait a little longer, it sounds like you're a good candidate for the 60's.


M22ti mains, EP175 sub, VP150 center, QS4 surrounds
Re: How many watts per channel do I really need?
#114668 11/02/05 03:36 PM
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Hi GregM,

Paired with a good sub, and conditional on your listening-taste, I'd say about 2,500 cu. ft. The M22s will play cleanly at remarkably loud levels running with a good-sized subwoofer in 5.1 channels. I've measured peak levels in my listening area of 100 dB SPL. That's perhaps 2 dB louder than the peaks I'd normally measure playing back big orchestral works with bass drum, pipe organ and chorus.

Last night I attended a solo piano recital by Angela Brownridge in a small recital hall. Seats about 400 people and has excellent acoustics. She played a giant Steinway concert grand. I sat in the 4th row, about 30 feet back from the piano.

I was surprised by the peak levels I measured on the ol' Rat Shack SPL meter. During some Chopin and Beethoven works, particularly the Beethoven Sonata in F minor, Op. 57 "Apassionata," the meter peaked over 100 dB SPL. It was certainly loud, but in the larger space of the recital hall, it never seemed "too loud".

Regards,


Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert (Retired)
Re: How many watts per channel do I really need?
#114669 11/02/05 03:47 PM
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I love the fact that you bring your Rat Shack meter with you everywhere.

Re: How many watts per channel do I really need?
#114670 11/02/05 04:05 PM
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Spiff,

I have to be really covert about using it, lest they think I'm trying to do a bootleg recording. No-one has ever questioned me but I don't wave the thing around. I kind of withdraw it from my pocket (is that a variation on the Mae West line to Jimmie Stewart? Is that an SPL meter in your pocket or are you just glad to see me? ha, ha).

Regards,


Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert (Retired)

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