Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Advice on Speakers

did you play either paired with a sub - or just alone?

oh...also - Hsu offers free shipping now.

In reply to:

---

I like the clarity of vocals and guitars on the m22s but they sound a tad thin(for lack of a better word) for my tastes.

---

Were you listening to the M22 with a level-calibrated subwoofer? Without a sub, the M22 can surely sound thin, not because of its midrange/treble character, but simply because its lack of bass below certain frequencies. The M22 does NOT emphasize mid-bass like many other bookshelves -- it is really flat to a point, and then just falls off. Sounds truly great with a sub.

Yes...that's my point. The M22's really need to be paired with a good sub. Before I bought mine, I did a side-by-side with the Energy C-3's, and without a sub, I may very well have gone with the energy's, but I realized that I would be using a sub. So I did another listening session with the sub on. With that, there was no comparison. The M22's no longer sounded "thin". They were just clean and clear all the way through.

so...try your A/B test again vs. the 170's this time with a sub, and let us know what you think.

btw - your initial thoughts on the M22 vs the 170 are exactly how I felt as well. The M22's details are unrivaled.

I am doing the test with a Klipsch ksw-15(not mine). Even then I still think the m22s are a little lean. I've had the axioms for a week longer than the ascends(got them today) so I'll have to do some more in-depth testing tomorrow.

ps-thanks for the heads up on the hsu shipping

Gary, although there's no way to be sure exactly what "lean" means to you, I'd suspect that you may be used to an inaccurate "fullness" in some frequency range. Above the low bass, which the sub would handle, NRC measurements and personal listening show that the M22 is extremely accurate(some prefer a more "laid-back" response), so any emphasis in the upper bass which would give an impression of greater fullness would in fact be an inaccuracy in that speaker.

While that may be true. Scientificly accurate might not sound good to his ears. If every speaker manufacturer's goal was to make a scientifically perfect speaker, we'd have 100 companies making one speaker each, and they'd all sound the same.

In my own personal quest for audio bliss, I just sit back, close my eyes and listen. Which ever one sounds best to me is the one I'll buy. I pretty much ignore specs. (Granted, what makes me smile is generally a natural flat sound - but that's me. Heck some people love the sound of Rockets)

"Gary, although there's no way to be sure exactly what "lean" means to you, I'd suspect that you may be used to an inaccurate "fullness" in some frequency range. Above the low bass, which the sub would handle, NRC measurements and personal listening show that the M22 is extremely accurate(some prefer a more "laid-back" response), so any emphasis in the upper bass which would give an impression of greater fullness would in fact be an inaccuracy in that speaker."

As an Ascend owner, and someone that has a lot of respect for Axioms, this has got to be one of the most biased and misleading posts I have seen on the Axiom board. The advice given on this board is usually educated and helpful, and sure, sometimes with bias, but never misleading.

The M22 and CBM-170 have extremely flat, "accurate" curves. Even speakers with the same response curves can sound different. The fact that Gary percieves more fullness from the CBM-170 probably has less to do with the accuracy of the speaker than anythingelse. If the M60 has more fullness than the M22, is it because it is less accurate?

In reply to:

---

If the M60 has more fullness than the M22, is it because it is less accurate?

---

I say no.

One reason we chose the M60 over the M22 is for this very reason. The M22 sound was simply too small, too thin for our preferences. At the time, we were not considering adding a sub right away (some ppl may never add a sub) and it is ridiculous to suggest buying this as the compensating addition to the M22s if you are not interested in owning one.

Hi Curtis ,

I don't think JohnK was trying to imply that the Ascends are "colored" or inaccurate. Rather, he was pointing out the possibility that Gary's current speakers (or other speakers he listens to often) may have been colored, affecting his sense of neutrality.

Ouch! That is the same lack of tact I saw from members on the AVS speaker board.