Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Advice on recent M50 purchase

I'm putting together my first home theater/music setup in a fairly small - 12x17 living room. I recently ordered some M3s after reading great reviews on websites and in this forum. I really liked the sound so I ordered some M50s to replace some old handed down Realistic Optima 3 ways.

Once the M50s arrived I was really disappointed with how they sounded - really muffled. I'd read about break in periods so I've run them almost 24/7 for the last week. They did open up, but compared to the old Realistics, they still sound very muffled, almost as if there's cotton in my ears when I'm listening to them. I've played with positioning quite a bit, though my options are somewhat limited. I've got to crank the Denon 2803 they're driven by to get any real volume out of them and the image from them just seems very flat. Now I understand that the dual 6.5" just may not put out what the old 10" Realistic drivers did. So ordered some M60s after reading much more in this forum and they should arrive tomorrow, hopefully I'll hear a big difference in the mids and the imaging.

Now I also ordered a VP100 and again, was not overly impressed with it's presence. It does sound very clear, however not very deep. I'm used to listening to movies through the old towers so part of it is the adjustment to the surround sound format. I'm wondering if anyone has compared the VP100 to the VP150? Does the latter produce a significant increase in dispersion and bottom end?

I guess I'm really wondering if I'm going to have to add a sub or go the M80 route to get the bottom end and presence of the old speakers (if the 60s don't cut it), does it make sense to have towers up front? I'm having trouble justifying spending a sizable chuck of change to outperform what I thought were fairly basic old speakers. Should I just go with M3s or M22s up front and apply the extra to a sub?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

tobz67,
Just to get this one out of the way, speaker break-in is a myth.
If you want to read more about this psychoacoustic phenomenon, try out a general search on these forums. You will find plenty that has already been discussed.

That aside, i suggest you read through this relatively recent thread on this very subject of first time speaker experiences. What you read in reviews and from other users is not always what will happen or will become your experience as well.
Keep in mind, you are very used to hearing a certain sound from your old speakers that ANYTHING new will sound different and not necessarily "blow you away" better....simply different.

That being said, the M60s are apparently more bright (less laid back) than the M50s. If you desire more bass, then the M80s might be one way to go, otherwise add a sub to your M50s/M60s for lower end oomph.
Personally i'm not a fan of big bassy sounds in music (unless its required as with a pipe organ) so the tight bass of the Axiom M60s I find very pleasant.

I does sound to me like you're having some trouble adjusting to the new sound. But from your descripion of the sound, it does also sounds like you prefer a more detailed speaker. From what I've read on these boards, the M40 and M50 speakers (as well as the M3) are Axioms most "laid back" sounding speakers.

If I were you, before I gave up on Axiom, I would try one of two things.

1) (and this would be what I would do) Try out the M22ti paired with a Hsu VTF-2 subwoofer. Your living room is indeed not all that large. You can easily fill that room with a pair of M22's. The added Hsu will fill in the low end, with much better bass than you'll ever get from a tower speaker.

2) Try the M60ti's. They will give you more low end (not as much as adding a good sub), but they will also have much more detail in the highs than the M50's.

From what you've described, I think you'll be much happier with either of these options than you are with the M50's alone.

To chesseroo & spiffnme,

Thank you both for your input and insight. I have realized that what my brain thought I liked in sound and what my ears actually preferred were not one in the same.

Spiffnme, as you said, I think I do prefer more detailed speakers and my intial purchase was based more on horror stories about _overly_ bright speakers and the M3s I liked were described as more laid back, so I thought a more laid back tower was the right match. I hadn't accepted that I do prefer the detail and crisp upper end that only brighter speakers provide. I should pick up the M60s tonight and hopefully my brain will be much happier.

I think either the M60s or the M22s are probably a better match for me and a sub is probably in my future either way. Thank you both for your help.

Hi tobz67,

You've been listening to the fat, bloated bass from the old Realistic 10-inch drivers so long that you like it, prefer it, and it's become a kind of sonic reference for you even though it isn't accurate of natural. Lots of older JBL speakers and other brands had that tonal balance, and some people still love it, but it isn't neutral. Many club speakers in discos and the like have a similar unnatural pumped-up bass response for dance purposes.

Once you get used to the smooth, unexaggerated bass from the M60s or M22s (or M80s), you'll find the heavy coloration of some speakers 200-Hz bass hump quite unpleasant.

Regards,

My M60s replaced some older 12" DCM "boom-tizz" speakers and at first I also thought the bass of the Axioms was lacking. However, with a sub I can go FAR beyond the bass of those two 12" drivers. Usually I don't want that much bass so it is irrelevant. The quality of the bass in the Axioms is far superior to that of the bigger speakers, but those larger cabinets do provide more boom. I think you'll notice with the M60s that you can discern individual drum beats and bass notes with far more clarity than the big box speakers.

Yes...exactly. I personally have never been a big fan of booming bass. One thing I really do enjoy is being able to hear the individual bass notes. With a good, clear speaker, you can actually hear each note the bass player is playing. Not just on overall low frequency "boom" beat. It's very cool.

I also use the M60s and they deliver plenty of bass. But it's not the fat, bloated bass in may competing speakers that Alan referred to in his post. Rather, it's crisp, accurate bass that BigWill described in which you can hear every note. That's the transparency that many of us seek.

Agree with Alan, based on reviews Axioms are very flat in bass response (which is good if you care about music rather than boom box effect). I went even further and corrected my room modes with some digitial gimics so I correct for bass resonance in my room. Originally, you perceive it as 'thin sound' but after very short time you realize that you hear much more music becasue the bass hump doesn't overly the detail and if speakers placed correctly for bass smear, you realize that the rhytm is more precise in the music making it much more involing. It's a little like people going from Coke to red-wine, an education of taste ;-)

Thanks to all for your feedback and insight!

I had started out to build a nice home theater and I've ended up going through an audio renaissance! The M60s are MUCH better for me. The clearer midrange is awesome. They do go lower than the 50s and perhaps because of the difference in driver configuration, with the dedicated midrange, they just seem to produce a more dynamic range (at least that what my rapidly changing brain and limited vocabulary seem to describe it as).

Well now that I'm so happy with this upgrade, I'm thinking I may want to move up to the VP150!