Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo M22 better than speakers 3x the price?

Hi Everyone, I've heard great things about Axiom speakers from a co-worker who owns them, and have been lurking around here long enough to see that the people here are among the more civilized and open minded on the internet.

Although I've decided on Axioms for the centre (Canadian spelling) and rear, I'm holding off judgement for the front mains, as I plan to use this for 2-channel listening as well. I'll be powering this setup with various rotel power amps, and my listening consists of mainly female vocals, easy listening and orchestral (I already have 2 subs).

Anyway, here is my question: The speakers I am considering besides the M22's are literally 3 times more than the M22's (yes, I understand I should timbre match the centre and the rest of the speakers), but if anyone has heard the M22 as well as these, I would really appreciate any opinions and feedback without cost as a consideration. I'm trying to decide based on best clarity, imaging, soundstage depth and width, etc. Here are the candidates:

Axiom M22
Von Schweikert VR-1
ProAc Tablettes
Meadowlark Swifts
Amphion Argon2
Dahlquist QX6

I'm not considering the Totem and Dynaudio offerings because I don't like that they are 4 ohm. Thanks for any help.

Stephen

The only speaker I personally have heard that could possibly outperform my M22ti's is the Energy Veritas 2.2. I wasn't able to side-by-side compare them, but the Veritas 2.2 was a very impressive speaker. At $1500/pair, it should be though. I've also heard tremendous things about the Revel M20.

Thanks Spiffnme ;-). I'm really glad to hear your comment since I know you run a bunch of Rotel gear with your speakers as well.

Both the Proac and M22 has great detail. The Proac is a little less forward. Both still need a sub for lower registry. The Proac is a mini monitor as has fast driver. M22 is also no slouch. Both still need a sub. I can listen to the M22 for about 2.5 hours. I can listen to the Proac for the rest of the day. It a matter of preference. M22- metal drivers - lots of detail/very neutral lots of ummpphh Proac - silk dome/paper drivers - detail but a little laid back/subtle - very very deep sound stage. One thing to note the PRoac is 2.5 - 3 time the cost of the M22. If your centers are Axiom stick to all Axioms to have consistant tonal qualities - better for surround movie and music.

The M22 have nore detail than any of the Dalquist I have listened to.

If you were spending that much look into
http://www.pmcloudspeaker.com/db1.html
http://www.wharfedale.co.uk/evolution.htm
http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/products.models/Label/Model%20CM%202


Saturn

If you really value great surround sound, then I too would suggest axioms all around. Timbre matching speakers, especially the mains and the center, creates an amazingly better sound experience. Having perfectly matched speakers and different sounding ones is a night and day difference for me.

With that said, if you're considering speakers 3 times the cost of the m22's and you've already decided on an axiom center and rears, I'm guessing the vp150 and qs8's, then why not buy the m80's?

The vp150 seems to be made for and almost perfectly matched to the m80's. The m22's and m60's are close, but not as close. When I first setup my 150 and m22's, I was disappointed with the timbre matching and soundstage. They sounded like completely different speakers.

After aiming the tweeters for the m22's and the 150 directly at my ears, I realized that the treble quality between the 150 and the 22's were very similar. Then i discovered that boosting the m22's frequencies at around 350-100hz by about 4db made them sound even closer to the vp150.

So, in my opinion, if you've decided on the 150 and qs8's(just my guess) you should go with the m80's or if you choose the m22's to save money, I would suggest using the bass knobs to more perfectly match them to the 150's. Also for all those with m22's and vp150's I would suggest experimenting with your bass knobs to more closely matchthem to the 150. Yes I know that using the treble and bass knobs is a "sin" to many, but give it a try, you may be surprised with your results. They are extremely useful when trying to match your fronts with your center. In my situation, I used a Yamaha receiver, where the bass knob attenuates frequnecies from 350-50hz. Boosting these frequencies for my 22's actually made them smoother and more neutral in my particular setup. I ran test tones from 20k-90hz and found out that my 22's had a huge drop off in response between 100-400hz. This was causing them to sound bright and harsh and I acutally believe that this is why many people think the 22's sound this way.

The setup I was planning to get (if I went with Axiom all around) was M22 front, and M2 centre, rear centre and rear surrounds. I know the QS_ are very popular with the HT crowd, but I find myself prefering monopoles over the indirect firing surrounds. This will be going with a projector, hence the decision to go with M2 for a centre. I'll just learn to accept Hagrid's baritone voice change when watching Harry Potter through the M2 ;-)

What I need to confirm before I get anything is that I'll truly be happy with the M22 as my main 2-channel setup, since I don't want to "compromise" too much for the sake of the HT setup (also why I posted in the Stereo forum vs the HT forum).

I guess I'm looking for other peoples opinions (thanks greatly for the feedback Saturn) to shorten the list, as there are many I may not be able to demo personally. I think the speakers I'm leaning towards would be sonically similar to the M22, so the M2 "should" still work as a centre, but if it doesn't, I'll have to buy a new centre and have the M2 for another room or maybe rear back (I'm sure I can find a nice place for them)

Doesn't adjusting the bass knob effect all the speakers equally? (hey, I don't know! )Or does it only effect your main L/R's? If it effects all equally, I don't understand how tweaking with the bass will balance your M22's to match your VP150.

The bass knob on my receiver, and most receivers I believe, only attenuates the response for the main L/R speakers.

For me it worked out perfectly since my receiver's bass knob affects frequencies between 350-50, and my m22's were rolling off by around 3-6db starting from below 500hz. If you look at the NRC measurements you'll see that the m22's have a slight dip of around 2-3db from around 150hz-500hz. I used a radio shack meter along with a cd of sine frequencies generated from the NCH tone generator and my response graph was very close to the NRC measurements. After increasing the bass knob, the result was a smoother response. My 22's are about 3ft from the side walls and 2ft from the front wall. I suppose that moving the 22's closer to the wall may help increase the frequency response below 500, but for me, using the bass knob instead was a good compromise.

I also ran tests on the vp150 and find that in the position i placed it in, it lacks the roll off in frequencies under 500hz that the 22's had. It seems to be smoother in the sub 1khz area. By boosting my 22's response at 350 and under I find that it's a much closer match to the 150's. I'm sure that people's results with boosting the bass will vary, but I'd give it a try and see what happens. For me, my m22s and 150 blend almost seamlessly now, just from adjusting the bass knob. For everybody who can easily tell the difference, like me, in the sound of test tones and pans in movies between your 150 and 22's, try adjusting your bass knob for the 22s...

Cool...I'll give it a try. I have noticed just by ear, that the pink noise tone of the VP150 is a bit deeper sounding than the M22's. (Though I must say I haven't really noticed anything while listening to music/movies)

Hey Asap:

I agree with your suggestions and timbre matching is most preferable in a HT environment. I suggested the other name brand speakers instead of the M80 only due to the fact that most of Twitchies selection are bookshelves or mini monitors. Yes maybe some of the mini monitors are as expensive or more so than the M80 but it doesnt mean that it is conceivably better. Speaker preference is individualistic and can vary. For instance I had M22. I also have a pair of M3. I love the detail of the M22. My ears enjoy the M3. Both are great speakers. Nothing can touch it for the price. The M22 has great detail but I could only listen to them for about 2.5 hours and then my ears or brain would rattle. Maybe due to my tinitis. After some time I got upgradeatis itch and went for a floorstander. I pick up a Monitor Audio Silver S6. Excellent speaker by its right. Great reviews speacially if paired with excellent hardware and a nice big space to breathe. In my place (16x12) it sounded more forward than M22. The bass was definitely unruly and it just overpowered the room. The bass was overpowering all the detail. The M22 definitely sounded more at place than the floorstander Silver S6 in my room. I auditioned more floorstanders and went back to a mini monitor and enjoyed its sound stage and clarity and detail. I find in my room, smaller speakers (bookshelves or Mini monitors) with fast drivers have less coloration than floorstander speakers. The sound stage is much deeper and maybe my ears prefer a more subtle detail in a laid back sound. Most people like more ummpphh and that is why some people have there sub cranked up all the way. Pair a mini monitor with a tight sub and you get the full range.
Go and try out a Revel Performa M20 or a Dynaudio Special 25. Yes the price point of these speakers are too crazy and I would never fork out this much cash for speakers. But the sound coming out of these are just ... well I leave it up to you guys to audition.

Saturn