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How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122030 12/28/05 02:23 AM
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If I decide to mount my pair of QS8 "surround" (side) speakers to the walls of my home theater, one side will be 9 feet from the center viewing area whereas the other speaker will be 12 feet from the center.

My original choice is still an option, which would be to mount them to the underside of the framed out ductwork running between the front and back half of the room. Only problem is tht it puts the tops of the speakers about two inches from the ceiling (something I think I can rectify with a nicely stained piece of oak block to bring them down beneath the acoustical ceiling panels) and about 6.5' to 7' from the floor. On the plus side, this has the advantage of providing symetcial mounting distances from the center listening area.

...so which way do I go? I've read that the QS8's are incredibly forgiving. Is it better to wall mount them with a 3' discrepancy but more space above the top speaker, or mount them equal distances apart, 2" to 4" from the ceiling?

I'm insulating my framed out walls this week in the hope of hanging sheetrock this weekend, so I'm locking down speaker placement.

Thanks for your help.

Regards,
Spence


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Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122031 12/28/05 03:05 AM
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My first choice would be to use the oak blocks to mount them equidistant from the listening area, and a reasonable distance from the ceiling. Axiom usually recommends about 3 inches of breathing space for the drivers, I think. But, I know of some who have only a couple of inches of space above or below the QS8 drivers, and have no complaints.

However, you are correct that the QS8s are very forgiving regarding placement. Mounting them at different distances from the seating area can, for the most part, be compensated for by setting the correct distances in your receiver's speaker setup menu.

It comes down to doing what you feel comfortable with and find the easiest. I wouldn't be too concerned about going with any of the choices you have available.


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Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122032 12/28/05 03:06 AM
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I put mine on ladders to test the sound. One is 5 feet away. The other is 20 feet. Still sounds great!

Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122033 12/28/05 03:20 AM
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Spence:

I have my QS8 wall mounted, and the left one is about 2-3 feet further than the right one (from the TV-center plane). I have a window and a panel that didnt let me put them simmetrically. It does not bother at all the surround effects, but the speakers levels in the preamp I had to adjust them as one speaker is therefore closer to the listening position than the other. My preamp allow me to individually adjust the SR and SL levels, and I have notice that some receivers dont do it.

The enveloping effect of the QS8 does forgive this small discrepancy at my listening position. The only thing i can notice is that sometimes, is some movies, I can identify which speaker is closer to me, maybe because I cant set a specific time delay for each speaker, just for the surround pair. Sometimes I think is just psychological the fact I can detect a 2-3 feet difference with my ears just because I know they are assymetrical, but is something that maybe will bother you in an assymetrical configuration. As Ajax mentioned above, setting he right distance/time delay will solve that and it will go fine.

My QS8 are about 3-4 feet from the ceiling. I guess that if you can provide that separation, you will be alright. Either option will give you satisfying results, and if you can locate them simmetrically with some nice decor, then go for it, it will ease you setup.

Can you temporary mount the QS8 and give them a try in the mentioned configurations before fixing them?

Last edited by aabouganem; 12/28/05 03:24 AM.
Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122034 12/28/05 03:35 AM
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I can test positions using the "ladder method" to see how they sound. I'm inclined to mount them to the wall as I've got the "full metal brackets" for both side as well as the second pair of QS8s that will be mounted to the rear wall.

Using ladders and testing positions should be no big deal as the ceiling will be the last part constructed for the area.

My aging "flagship" Onkyo (TX-DS989) has full configuration for speaker distances of up to 30 feet from listening area so I should be all set (providing it still works after over a year in storage... the wait is killing me and I'll probably cry when I hear my Axioms for the first time... but I digress).

Seating area will be beneath a support beam, with an enclosed post to the right. The mounting wall is another 7 to 10 feet to the right of the post.

If I mount the speakers on either wall, they will be seperated by about 25 feet, and about 2 - 3 feet ahead of the seating area. If I mount them from the ceiling (beneath the framed HVAC duct) they will be about 15 feet apart, but may be placed to either side or slightly behind the seating area (any preference?).

With either mounting location, I'll be able to angle them down toward the listning position.

GAWD I CAN'T WAIT TO HEAR THESE! When done, I'll have a 27' deep by 25' wide, 7.1 channel home theater with the equivelent of an Epic Grand Master 350 v7.1 speaker system (and a "suplimental" secondary 15" down firing Cerwin Vega sub).

I've come a long way from my first Kenwood AV system & tower speakers!


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Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122035 12/28/05 03:42 AM
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I've got my 4 Qs8's attached to the boxed in duct work and it works fine. The regular ceiling is 9ft, and I think the boxed in area is about another 10" or so. I found some nice shelf brackets at Menards with gloss black plastic covers to hide the wiring. The Qs8's do not have to be exact in distance as some of the others have stated. They are very forgiving and you can adjust your delay and levels to get the right sound.








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Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122036 12/28/05 03:46 AM
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I hope you have an SPL meter. You will need one to adjust levels and test both positions.

Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122037 12/28/05 03:48 AM
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Spence, as far as distance from the ceiling goes, even 2-3" should be adequate room for the top woofer. If you'll have back surround speakers in a 7.1 setup you don't have to have the side surrounds behind the seating position to give some "phantom" back surround imaging. The side surrounds should then ideally be directly to the side of the listeners or even slightly in front.


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Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122038 12/28/05 04:25 AM
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SirQuack? Thanks for the info on the brackets, they are indeed "shiny" (that's "Cool" for those of you "non-Browncoats"... by the way Serenity is one awesome sounding movie recently released on DVD, it would do any Axiom speaker system PROUD!!).

...but I digress (yet again). SirQuack-man? You speak of Menard's. I've always thought of Menard's as a small regional chain. Where are you located? If you're in my neighborhood (Madison WI), I'd love to invite myself over to listen to your system. I'll check out those brackets, but leaning toward the FMBs that I've already purchased (rather than go to the hassle of selling them on eBay and losing money, plus, I like that they allow for easy adjustment when aiming).

Bugbitten? Roger on the SPL meter! It will however, have to wait for "fine tuning" as it is currently buried (along with aforementioned 7.1 channel receiver, not to mention y sorely missed 800+ title DVD library) inside the bowels of my storage area, to be emptied once carpeting is laid.

Thanks for the reassurance JohnK! I'm feeling better about my HT design (40% pre-planned, 60% made up as I go).

This forum is fantastic! Thanks again for the assistance!

Spence


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Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122039 12/28/05 04:27 AM
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Good luck on your project.

And Have a Happy New Year!

Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122040 12/28/05 04:33 AM
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Oh, by the way, I've an old picture of my original proposed placement for my speakers (when viewed from the location of my home theater screen). It was in another thread at a point where I was attempting to determine position (width) of rear speakers.

Anyway, a photo (complete with pasted in pictures of QS8s) of my original side speaker location is here;
http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=tech&Number=111544&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=

To the right, you can see what would be the "left" wall (if you were sitting toward the screen), just out of view to the left, is the right wall of the home theater. Mounting the QS8s to the walls, won't be all that much wider than my original plan, it will just be easier than manufacturing a decorative oak block, attaching it to the ceiling joist and cutting a precise hole in what will be a pair of 2x2 acoustical ceiling tiles.

...I think I'll aim at a wall mounting solution for both side and rear speakers.

SHINY! Can't wait!


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Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122041 12/28/05 03:03 PM
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Hey Spence, both Nickbuol and I live down in the Des Moines, Iowa area. I helped you with your link below...

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=tech&Number=111544&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=



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Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122042 12/28/05 03:15 PM
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Thanks Quack! I've seen in my settings that HTML is disabled. Is this for everyone or is there a setting somewhere that I am missing.

...or do you use UBBCode to embed links?



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Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122043 12/28/05 03:36 PM
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Just need to read the FAQ link at the top. If you place the "url" and "/url" at the front/end of your link it will work. Make sure you replace the "" with brackets [ ]


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Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122044 12/28/05 03:50 PM
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>>I've seen in my settings that HTML is disabled. Is this for everyone

Ideally it would have only been for a couple of posters who insisted on messing up the pages for everyone else ("GeneticDrift" comes to mind) but apparently the only practical way to prevent the problems was to disable HTML for everyone. In practice, I don't think we miss it -- I kinda like having all the text the same size and colour myself

There are simple commands (don't know if they are UBBcode) for inserting links and images, along with a bunch of other things we probably never use.


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Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122045 12/28/05 03:58 PM
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Lets try this. Here "should" be the photo that I was speaking of in an earlier posting which shows the "cut & pasted" locations for my QS8's.



Since posting that photo, I've decided to place my side surrounds directly onto the walls (between two and five feet out from where they are in the photo). I am also taking the advice of a helpful forum member, in that I will be spreading out the placement of my rear speakers a bit more than is pictured.

The photo was taken in the spot to be occupied by my HT display so things are a bit reversed. The silver 6" duct running between the joist is centered on where the screen will be. I've got four 6" recessed lights spaced equal distances to either side of the duct and another four lined up in a single row, behind the area where the HVAC will be framed in.

The wall to the right is 9' from center, the wall (single stud at end of wall is visible) to the left is 12' from center. The under edge of the beam (with HVAC ducts behind it) will be the lowest point in the area at around 6' 8" or so. All other ceilings will be at 8'. You see placement of the post (which houses dimmer controls for the HT lighting, along with phone & LAN jacks). QS8 on the left will be well away from the post, so the post shouldn't effect imaging too badly.

Can't wait to get 'er done! Thanks again gang!

Spence


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Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122046 12/28/05 03:59 PM
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HOT DANG! It worked! Thanks again for the tips SirQuack! I'll be sure to check the FAQ next time before posting silly questions.


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Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122047 01/18/06 03:43 AM
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Here is an update. The drywall guy will be here to start taping, mudding, sanding and texturing on Friday. I'm told that all of the basement walls will be completed by the following Friday (January 27th).

What's that you say? "The walls already looked finished ?"

"Aha" says I! "Skull-duggery and Adobe Photoshop magic!" says I! I wanted a preview of what it will look like before the paint goes on, so I did my own "virtual" finishing.

Painting commences on Saturday January 30th. It will be done in a two tone flat chocolate/latte scheme with the darker chocolate colors on the front and rear walls, and lighter "latte" colors on the side walls.

...they aren't the actual color names mind you (I can't remember the actual "fluffy" designer names, I'm just using words that discribe the look and feel).

Soon! Soon can't come soon enough!



As you may already have guessed, I am becoming more than a little excited.

Regards,

Spence


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Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's
#122048 01/18/06 03:46 AM
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for some quick and dirty photoshopping, that's pretty convincing. Or maybe it wasn't quick?

Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's
#122049 01/18/06 03:57 AM
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fifteen minutes PS CS's "healing tool" is all it took. Having a reasonably uniform background to sample from makes it too easy not to play with.

Now I've got to create a list of a potential "first movies" to show. Given my appreciation for the Joss Whedon series Firefly and it's theatrical continuation, I have named my home Theater "Serenity". You can see my bias toward showing the movie "Serenity" as my inaugural movie.

...also because "Fortress of Solitude" didn't format well on my custom poster.

Now if I can find a way to keep the area free of interuption from my wife and three year old daughter while hosting a viewing party. I'll be able to die a happy man!

Last edited by Spence; 01/18/06 03:59 AM.

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Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122050 01/18/06 04:04 AM
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I'm curious why the drywall guy did not start with the ceiling first, normally that is done first, then the wall drywall is place up snug to help support? Are you doing a suspended ceiling?


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Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122051 01/18/06 04:24 AM
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Nothing against having a drywall ceiling, but I'm going the acoustical route in my home.

It will be comprised of 2' by 2' tiles with the highest noise reduction coeficient I could find.

I am using a "CeilingMax" grid, a locally produced product instead of actually suspending the ceiling. This provides the benefit of an acoustical ceiling, but at the cost of only 1.5 inches of headroom.

I was indifferent to drywall vs. acoustical ceiling tile and decided on the latter for additional sound absorption, and so I could get to cables (Satellite, Speaker and LAN). I'm also insulating the heck out of the ceiling cavity (with 6" R-19). I'd have gone all out with the added expense of resiliant channel and soundboard, but after the purchase of my (as yet unconnected) Axioms, I'd have a hard time of getting additional funding approved from my home's equivelent to the UN.

I'm an Info-tech contractor geek and like to have access to cable runs. Who knows, some day I may be running fiber through the house!


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Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122052 01/18/06 04:31 AM
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Oh, and SirQuak. One of my colors will be very close to the shade of brown shown in your HT photos!

I've opted for Ace Sensations flat. Time will tell if the added expense in a "high tech" paint will pay off with a 3 year old at large.


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Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122053 01/18/06 04:35 AM
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I looked at the same system as an option for my basement remodeling, and I am also an IT geek. However, I did get many people that told me the high noise reduction tiles being great in reducing noise for the upstairs, can really have a negative impact on how your sound reflects around the room. Some reflectivity is a good thing.

My wife wanted more of a finished look, so I"m crossing my fingers we don't ever have plumbing problems. We shouldn't, we used PEX. I did prerun all of my Qs8 locations with good in-wall 12 gauge wiring, and my entire house is setup with RG6 and Cat5e. Funny thing, I'm using a wireless network, ha ha

Good Luck...I'll be getting carpet/tile soon.


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Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122054 01/18/06 12:31 PM
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Ah! LOL! Twin sons of different parents!

I also have cat5e along with quad shielded RG6 wired throughout the house (two runs of each to each outlet with one outlet per room ...two outlets in Home Theater and Living rooms).

I was working on a reply at 3:30 a.m. (3 year old "night terror") via a wireless connection from my PDA but hit the browser's "home" button and lost all of my finely stylisted text in my groggy-ness.

I love the design of your HT room and hope to some day graduate up to a front projector and monster screen size. For now, I'm locked into my modest 65" Mitsubishi (an agreement I made with my "commitee") for another four years.

Once completed, we'll have to play host to each other. I'd like to see if there is a noticable difference in accoustical quality between my ceiling and yours.

Well, back to work!

Cheers!
Spence


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Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122055 01/18/06 01:43 PM
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Ya gotta love a guy who's bio reads "Just want to be known when I die as a nice guy - then buried in my television! "

Welcome Jeff! Hope you'll stick around and contribute to the insanity.


Jack

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Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122056 01/18/06 02:05 PM
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We have two sons, one 7yrs old and the other 1.5yrs, so I know what your talking about those nights without sleep, ha ha

The bad thing is that my youngest sons room is right above the HT area. I insulated very well, but nothing stops the EP500 Earthquakes........-....-......------....--------^^^^^^^^^^^------...


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Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122057 01/18/06 04:48 PM
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I've a friend who served on the USS America (aircraft carrier) in the early 90's. His "rack" was in an area directly beneath the catapult system.

According to his wife, to this day, he still requires no less than two physical alarm clocks set to go off within minutes of each other at full volume to rouse him from slumber.

The lesson here is that your child will adapt to noise and become (no pun intended) "sound" sleeper.

Absence of sound may cause restlessness, so keep it cranked!


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Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122058 01/19/06 08:47 AM
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for the LOVE OF GOD KID!

LET!

ME!

SLEEEEEEP!


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Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122059 01/19/06 02:56 PM
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My sympathies. I am childless, and no matter what path you chose in life there is a price to pay. I've never known the joy of having a tiny pair of arms around my neck and hearing "I love you, dad." That's a high price to pay for the path I've chosen. On the other hand, I've never had to go through what you are dealing with at the moment, and I have no hostages to fortune. Ya pays yer money and ya picks yer poison. Life is crazy! The trick seems to be to take great joy in the positive aspects of one's chosen path, and let that joy make the negatives worth enduring. Love that child, and, eventually, you'll get your reward.

(The most reasonable response, on your part, to this philosophical treatise, after a sleep disturbed night, would be "oh shut the **** up!, you idiot!" Were our roles reversed, I KNOW that would be MY response. Hang in there!)


Jack

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Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122060 01/19/06 03:19 PM
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Is this your first child?

Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's
#122061 01/19/06 04:12 PM
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Here's something I learned real quick. Fantasizing about tossing the kid out the window is OK and can be quite theraputic, as long as you don't actually do it.

Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122062 01/19/06 04:56 PM
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First child yes. Proudly adopted on the other side of the world (Siberia - see my avatar, taken upon our first meeting - it was love at first sight)!

I take the good with the bad (90% good). Unfortunately my wife caters to her, which only serves to "feed the beast".

Second night in a row that she's woken up at around 3:00 a.m. The funny thing (and I wish I'd have been awake enough to grab a camcorder) was that after she went back to sleep, she began to sing... LOUDLY! Of course she's only three and she was sleeping so I couldn't make out any words, but there was a definate melody hidden in her slumberous solo!

We are planning a return to the same region for a second child, with the hope to bring Lexi ("Alexandra" who's given ...now middle name is "Anastasia") along to see her homeland and meet her new brother or sister. We also hope to meet up with the lifelong friends who helped us while we were in country.

More info on our little adventure is on www.spencesplace.com (which sadly, was last updated from Moscow while on our way home in September of 2003).

Time to get back down to the basement! The drywall guy begins work tomorrow!


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Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122063 01/19/06 05:15 PM
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Oh BRAVO, Jeff. I LOVE her name. Alexandra Anastasia Spencer. Beautiful! I also like that you're using Lexi as a diminutive, rather than the gender confusing "Alex." Of course, at some point in her youth, she'll probably "hate" Lexi, and demand to be called Alexandra, but ya never know. Maybe not.

Kudos, as well, for wishing to keep her connected to her heritage. I have a friend/acquaintance who has a business in (not sure of the spelling) Khabarovsk, in Siberia, and travels there all the time. In fact, he's on his way there right now.


Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122064 01/19/06 05:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 54
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Thanks Jack,

The downside to parenthood is that my wife and I only have the "illusion" of control over our home.

Thus stems my priority in finishing off the Serenity (home theater), so I will (at least for a time) be able to once again regain control of the remote (yes, Lexi knows how to start, stop and pause the DVD player as well as the DVR).

...at least until she starts having pajama parties. :\


"Someone tries to kill you - you kill 'em right back!" Capt. Mal Reynolds
Re: How important is symetrical placement of QS8's?
#122065 01/19/06 07:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
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As a DINK myself (Dual Income, No Kids) I'm probably not the best person to comment on this, but I've had girls in my life from the time I was 16... first a GF (my buddy's sister in law) with a baby daughter that I met the day she got out of the hospital after her birth, then a GF with an 8 month old daughter that we shared two years of our lives together, then when I met Lisa, her youngest sister was 2 (she's 12 now) and the two of us have always been tight.

Having young'uns around keeps you young. I'm not one with a lot of patience, so it's trying sometimes... "WHAT?!? No, you can't have a can of frosting for lunch... what are you thinki... no, no, it's cool... let's go make a sandwich instead"

Lisa's sister and I are so similar the family joke is that her mom must have sat on a toilet seat that I, er.. sullied.

Bren R.

p.s. - judging by sis' email list, there is one drawback to using Lexi as the familiar name... she WILL use Sexi Lexi as her screen name at some point in her life. Just like every Cindy calls herself Sin eventually.

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