Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Which cables to go with?

Ok, I've decided on the axiom speakers for my friend's budget system. The equipment will be Denon AVR 1803 receiver, M22ti for fronts, vp150 center, qs8 surrounds, and probably hsu or svs sub. Now I just need some help recommending cables for speaker wire and audio (analog and digital) cables. Since he's on budget he's not gonna buy expensive stuff so I just want the best bang for the buck to get it hooked up and sounding great. So what do you guys recommend?

ereed,
Go to a Home Depot or similar store.
Short of buying bargains on eBay, that is the cheapest place in town that i found for cables (in Canada anyway). Costco might be another thought.
There are many other posts in the forums regarding places to buy inexpensive cables.

There's also Radio Shack.

Just make sure the speaker wire is 12 awg.

Oxygen Free Copper ones... 12 awg.... with that PVC stuff coating it. That's all you need to know!!!

If you really want to go wild, you can go this route:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_2/ultralink-CL414-cable-5-2003.html.

Best of all worlds

1. For speaker wire, I use 12 ga. wire from Parts Express. It's $22.95 for a 50' roll: www.partsexpress.com.
2. For audio interconnects, I use the Phoenix Gold ARX-610, which are just under $9 for a 1-meter cable at www.beachaudio.com. The ARX-610 has a twisted-pair conductor with a tinned copper drain and a mylar foil sheild.

I have no clue which speaker wires to go with...I know I want 12 gauge but I have no clue what the difference between 2 conductor and 4 conductor is....I know 4 conductor is 4 wires but what is it used for? By the way are the front speaker wires going to be same as rear speaker wires? Reason I asked is because we're going to have to go through attic and walls for the rears and want right kind of speaker wire. This is for the QS8 surrounds and I'm guessing its gonna need about 30 feet per side. So which wire would I need for that? I'm looking at partexpress and there is too many differnt types and kinds and its confusing me. Help!

You're making this too complicated. First, it's unlikely that you need 12ga, even for your longest runs. Regular 16ga lampcord should be fine at maybe $0.15 a foot and easier to work with than the thicker gauges. This is all, of course, 2 conductor wire; you have no need for 4 conductor. For a simple explanation, study this .

I'll second the Parts Express recommendation. Just get their "Sound King" brand speaker wire and their Dayton line of interconnects are built well and cheap. Shipping is expensive on a single item but better if you buy more stuff. I bought their banana plugs and optical cables along with the speaker wire.

Frank

I've mentioned this before - I'll do it one more time. If you are really into saving some cash - make the interconnects yourself. It's not hard at all, and you can get longer lengths A LOT cheaper this way. Go to www.markertek.com and get some Canare star-quad cabling - it's great cable for interconnects, and it's only $.40/foot. Solder any type of connector you want onto it - whatever floats your boat.

Also, they all kinds of colors - if you are into that kind of thing...

Just a suggestion... but I personally LOVE to DIY where possible without an EE degree, just because it makes my system (and everything else I own) - more "me."

Good luck!

I used 12 gauge low voltage garden lighting copper wire to hook up my QS8s (sacrilege!). I experimented with it and 12 gauge monster cable "speaker wire" on my VP150 and couldn't tell the difference. Plus, it's black and blends well with my homemade speaker stands (I used some wire guides to tack the cabling to one of the uprights). I believe that stuff was $12.98 for 50' at Lowes.

12ga Monster? All the normal Monster is actually 16-18 ga with a [censored] load of insulation, I believe.

This subject has more hype to it than Herry Potter !?? haha
JohnK said it best, "your making it too complicated"..
Chess is right on with Home Depot/Lowes etc (inexpensive).. Ravi has the Oxygen Free Copper part down (prevents corrosion)..
And I LOVE BigWill's 'Garden Lighting' !! LOL.. You rock my friend.. I can just see the high-end gear guru's pulling out their hair !! hahaha
Save your hard earned green for speakers 'n amps 'n such, not for over rated needlessly expensive Super Duper speaker wire..
As for guage, since the cheap stuff is so cheap, we all tend to go a bit on the heavy side, but there is no harm in that.. That being said, 14 seems to be the most common, with 12 being the next favorite, as some systems have some pretty heavy hitting amps, and need the extra gauge to handle the load better.. I'm sure some are running 10 awg..
No harm in going with heavier wire, it's just that it starts to become unmanageable due to the thickness factor..
Ok, I'm outta hear.. I have to go check the ol' garage for some scrap zip line, for that new 1000 watt maga amp for my center channel.. Let's see, this 18 awg lamp cord, with the cracked and peeling chocolate plastic insulation should just do the trick..

Ok, my cousin works for Liberty Cables....I haven't heard of these cables but she said they make all kinds of cables from speaker wire to digital cables and says they are good quality. What you guys think of Liberty if you have heard of it? I'm guessing its better or just as good as other name brands such as Monster, etc but cheaper if I can get it through her.

JohnK is right (even down to the link I was just about to post); you can get away with less than 12 ga. wire. (Keep in mind that you're driving a 6 ohm load with the QS8s.) But given that you've taken the time and effort to post here, I'm assuming you're like the vast majority of us and don't want to be cutting it close to save a few bucks. 100' of the Sound King 16 ga. wire is $24.50 and 100' of their 16 ga. is $35.90 at Parts Express. I like to save money as much as the next guy, but franklyb with an $11 difference over 100' of wiring, I'd err on the side of caution. Go with the 12 ga. and you can rest assured that you'll be fine.

About two years ago I received a postcard from the AL & Ed's Store telling me to bring it in and receive $50 of free merchandise - no strings attached. When I got there I saw nothing I wanted so I had them peel off 50 bucks worth of their fattest monster cable.
When I made all of the connections for my new system, this wire appeared identical in size (wire only, not insulation) to the 12 gauge garden wire I'm using with my QS8s. Thus, I reckon it is 12 gauge.
When I bought my receiver at Tweeter's and they tried to sell me every bit of wire and interconnects they could, the manager said, "If you got that from Al & Ed's then it's for car audio and has delays built into the wire." I'm sure my mouth was hanging open. Snake oil salesmen in every store.

"Delays built into the wire"?

Now that's one i've never heard before.

Chess, your admission surprises me. The Tweeterman was apparently very knowledgeable concerning the cheap copper(less than 99.9999% pure)frequently palmed off on unsuspecting car audio buyers. The electrons having to fight their way through the impurities are obviously delayed and this causes a loss of quickness in the bass and smears the treble.

As a service to you and others I'll bring your attention to the audio products available here through this English source, knowledge of which has been concealed from North American purchasers.

The insanity of it all.
I guess i had better pick up some 100.0000000000000000000000000% pure copper wire soon lest my electrons be flowing in the wrong direction.

Pop Quiz!!!

What is the (average) speed of free electrons in a copper speaker wire during typical music playback?

A. Speed of light in vacuum
B. About 90% of speed of light in vacuum
C. About 1% of speed of light in vacuum
D. A few mm per second
E. None of the above

[This is not a joke, so be serious.]

I'll take a stab at it. How bout C.

I'll go with b.

I'd go with E. The drift velocity of electrons in a copper conductor is about 1/3 of a mm per secoond. In an AC current the average drift would be zero.

Are we bi-amping?
Does the line run uphill or downhill?
Would it be the same as my cold water pipes?




"be serious" ........oh sorry missed that

Masa, you didn't specify, but you may be aiming at the drift velocity of the electrons in the wire(a few mm per second)rather than the Fermi velocity of the electrons. If this is the case, I'd like to know why I can't flip the light switch and jump into bed before it gets dark. Any true audiophile reading your question may also be puzzled as to why you didn't specify "cheap" copper or "6 nines".

The electrons dont start at one end and flow to the other like water in a hose!!!! That is why you cannot hit the switch and then jump in the bed...

I did have a physics prof that always said you could run between the drops in the rain. He was committed (seriously) later in life though!!

Okay... the answer is D.

The instantaneous speed of random movements of free electrons in copper (Fermi velocity) is about 1% of speed of light. However, the "net flow" of electrons (drift velocity) that makes up the electrical current is a few mm per second, assuming the amp output of about 1 ampere and a "usual" cross-section of speaker wire.

Then, the electromagnetic field (i.e., electrical "signal") transmits through copper at about 90% of speed of light. And this is why you "can't flip the light switch and jump into bed before it gets dark."

Of course, if you use the Kimbar Kable instead of the Home Depot lampcord, the Fermi velocity will magically increase at leaset 10 fold. Oh, and don't forget that after a proper cable break-in, it will further increase by 2 fold because electrons can now travel more smoothly.

Seriously, the "pre-filled water hose" analogy is correct: when you open the spout at one end of a long hose, water starts to flow out at the other end of the hose IMMEDIATELY, even though the actual speed at which water flows inside the hose is fairly slow. In this case, the speed of water flow is equivalent to drift velocity of electrons, yet the "information" that the spout has been opened (pressure wave) transmits through the hose at the speed of sound.

Now, is that the speed of sound through water, or the speed of sound through air?

Actually,

I think it is speed in a vaccuum!!!!

Dirtdevil or Hoover??

It is the speed of sound in water in this case, faster tham Mach 1.

And since the speed of sound in water approaches 5,000 ft./sec. compared to about 1,130 ft. sec. in air, those audiophiles choosing to listen under water will definitely experience "quicker" bass.

So, given a water-filled hose of 2.5cm internal diameter and 1.0km length, how long would it take the pressure wave to propagate from one end to the other?

I'll be nice: you can assume the pressure wave will not flex -- temporarily increase the diameter of -- the hose.

Hey! You dropped the idea of physics major! What the heck do you think you're doing?

Great article! However, my 16 guage Rat Shack cable works fine for now...

Hi all,
as I am starting to wire my new axiom system, I am trying to figure out the proper speaker wire to get for wiring my QS8 surrounds. I am basically looking at 12 (or near to it)Gauge OFC wire. Since I am reluctant in my ability to do in-wall wiring, I will probably go with external wires which will make the vertical run of the wires visible. So my question is whether I should go with the normal clear insulation wire from sound king etc(at partsexpress.com) or should I go with some kind of flat wire (such as IXOS 603 or IXOS XHS403 from accessories4less.com http://www.accessories4less.com/items.asp?CartId=1-EVEREST-3509720FYWDH16&Cc=CAB%2DSPFT&tpc= )

Since I would want to hide/mask the wire as much as possible, I am wondering how people usually do that ? Is there some kind of white masking tape (my room has whitish/cream walls) or do I paint over it or what ?

Is there any tradeoff between flat speaker wire and the normal ones ? I am finding many choices in regular clear jacket 12 GA speaker wire but very few in flat, white wire. Am I looking in the wrong websites or should I just not bother with flat wire ?

thanks in advance.

audioseeker, I would suggest the Cordmate or Cordmate II paintable on-wall raceways, available at the Home Depot and other home improvement warehouses. The raceways will be still visible on the wall, but they make it look much neater. Of course, in this case you don’t have to worry about the “looks” of the wires themselves.

And, since you gave me another chance to show off the picture of our living-room HT , here is an example using the Cordmate II raceways.

Despite your comments, I think the raceways look pretty darn good. That should pass the WAF qualification, if I ever manage to scrape together the money for QS8s.

Renters beware: if you put a raceway up on the wall it may strip a few layers of paint when you decide to remove it.

Home Depot sells raceways for cheap.

Hey Sushi is that standard masking on the Hi-power? Or did you modify it? If it is standard then definitely will go to Hi-power so I don't need to do any tinkering. I tried using different cloths and paints and I definitely not a DIY guy.

Saturn,

I had Da-Lite custom-mask the screen to my own specs -- Like you, I did not bother to do any "tweaks" myself. Mine is the 8'x10' Model C w/CSR, custom-masked down to a 58"x104" (or 120"-diagonal 16:9) viewing area. It has a 8" black-masked border on either side, a 10" black border below, and a 28" black "drop" above the viewing area. Of couse, the masking was carried out with a 100% professional care and quality.

Da-Lite will be glad to custom-mask the Model C or any other screen exactly to your specs, with essentially no cost to you! -- mine costed ~$600 including shipping, about the same price as a plain-vanilla 8'x10' screen (with only a ~2" black border each side). Although you will buy their screen via a dealer, I suggest you directly contact Da-Lite first, and discuss about custom-masking.

Thanks Sushi. I did not know that DaLite custom masks for customers. Thats excellent information. When time comes definitely will go that direction. Since the X1 is a 4:3 projector there is definitely not so black bars below and above which accounts for about 8" so I defitely will measure how thick those bars are and match it to the sides. What is the diff between the model B and model C?

Saturn

The Model C is much sturdier as compared to the Model B, with a significantly larger roller bar and heavier-duty mechanisms. The Model B only supports up to 8' of screen width; for larger screen, there is no choice but the Model C. On the other hand, the Model B, with its smaller case, may be less visually obtrusive for a smaller screen, especially when the ceiling is lower than 8' high.

This is truly educational. Thanks JohnK for the link to Speaker Wire (a history) and BigWill and his garden lighting wire.

Let's see, 16 AWG will work up to 50 ft for 8 ohm load . . .garden lighting wire... here's a link for 100 feet for $2.99: www.mcminone.com and search for item 58-6634. Might have trouble keeping track of the polarity, though.

On the other hand, search for item 24-120 and get 12 AGW for $23.95 + S&H. Get Banana Plugs for 1.49 pr. and digital optical cable for 2.99. I have ordered before from these people and was satisified. You don't find out the shipping until it ships, but it was reasonable in my case.