Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Squeezebox 3rd Generation (pics)

Building a digital jukebox has been on the list for many months, and with other projects having priority, its still way down the list. I have researched the Squeezebox in the past, so over the weekend decided to order one and see how it works out. It arrived today and took a few pics.





The control is available for ethernet ($ 249) or wireless ($ 299), and a choice of Black or White. The SlimServer open Source software is available online at no charge, and uses Peral scripting. The decision was made to install the software on one of the Sun servers here, and the pc boxes would just access it over the network. Ken had spent many hours converting the CD collection and it is mostly completed, we now have access to 574 albums, with 5,500 songs, by 202 artist from all computers as well as the Squeezebox.
Since we have wireless, it was easy to set up and connect the box to the Halo C2 using a optical connection. Only took about 15 minutes to have it up and playing tunes. The software allows one to browse a music collection by albums, artist, artwork, genres, years, and a few others. The Squeezebox does some other cool stuff, still playing with it.




Have been listening to music for about 6 hours now, and the system is working perfectly with no problems. Will do some comparing the qulaity to the orignal CD at some point, but at this point if there is any great loss of quality, have not heard it so far. Having access to the collection and being able to program music for any lengthof listening period is nice to have. A link for the box is below for any interested in more info on it.

Squeezebox

Nice job, Tharkun. As you may realize I recently posted a mini-review of the Squeezebox that I purchased a month or so ago. I went with the 2nd generation version though just because it's form-factor is slightly shorter and fits in my stereo cabinet better. The new one really looks nice though!

I hope you have as much fun with yours as I'm having with mine.

Nice stuff! As usual, I'm envious. I didn't realize that they were so small!

Thanks for the initial comments. I'm especially interested in your comments regarding sound quality. If there is no discernable quality loss on a system as nice as yours, then I certainly will have nothing to worry about.

What did your rip your CD collection to - mp3/wma/FLAC/other?

All are in mp3 format and the software used on the Sun boxes was cdrtools.

I actually received something similar for Christmas:

Roku Soundbridge

I can't comment yet on how effective it is because i have been too busy to get the proper software installed on the PC. Looks like pretty simple setup & operation though. Will be connected wirelessly. I figure if it works 1/2 as well as advertised it should be a great addition.

CNET Review was very positive.

I have been researching this unit a lot lately and am definitely going to get one. I'm currently building a dedicated music server for it. My question is how to connect it wirelessly. Can you connect peer to peer to the computer with a wireless card attached or does it actually need a wireless router? I'm stupid when it comes to this wireless stuff.

About the sound. Well, it's got Burr-Brown DAC's in it, so I'm assuming that the sound quality is good. Of course, it can be connected digitally as well.

This info is from Slimdevices.com "11 Mbps 802.11b and 54Mbps 802.11g are both supported. Both infrastructure and ad-hoc modes are supported, so you can connect to a wireless router, wireless access point, or even directly to a computer that has a wireless network interface."
So yes, you should be able to do it, try asking on the Slimdevices forum for more info.

Squeezebox Forum

Is it possible to implement multiple Squeezebox "clients" all pointing to the same server? If so, can they access different content simultaneously?

Yes one can do that, it was a bit of a pain to set up here, the server software is running on one of the Sun boxes, two of us run pc boxes. After some playing and fustration, the computer geeks here had it working here. The Squeezebox on the HT system and each of our three puters can all acess the software and each play differant tunes. So it is working out well, I prefer it over the Sony mega players Tom.

I'm glad, Dennis

I'm sure I would, too, if I could get past the time investment necessary to rip everything at good quality. Sony just came out with a HTPC with an attached 200 disk changer. If you could load the changer and then tell it to rip everything and come back the next day... Boy howdy.

I know it's perverted to reply to your own post, but I couldn't find a better place to rekindle this conversation.

I really dig Pandora. And I am, grudgingly, beginning to rip more of my disks.

But I have a question about using alternate front-ends for simultaneous whole-house audio. That is, I want to be able to store all the music on a NAS server (running FreeNAS), and then use PC's (using iTunes or ?) to stream the audio to various rooms. PC's I have, Squeezeboxes cost money. It *seems* like the slimserver software might allow this scenario. Would I be able to stream either simultaneous (the same track at the same exact time) or different tunes to each PC front end?

I either already have or could run Cat5e to all the locations I'm thinking of. Add some decent powered speakers and voila?

Curtis? Dennis? Bueller?

Pervert.

Thanks, Rick. You've been helpful.

The slimserver software will allow you to synchronize music to various PCs, or a combination of some synchronized, while others playing different music. The software is open source and quite well done. If you want to use PCs as a front end rather than squeezboxes, you will have to install softsqueeze on the client PCs. As the name implies, softsqueeze is a software interface that mimics the squeezbox, including the remote control. I currently have one Squeezebox, with another on the way. Download slimserver and play around with it, it's the best streaming audio player I've used.

Ya know, I just read that as "I really dig Pantera" and I'm thinking, "Tom's a metal fan? Didn't really seem his thing..."

Heh. I'm more of a progressive rock guy.

Dan, thanks very much for the helpful response! I think that has real possibilities for me.

I might get some value out of this "internet" and "network" business yet.

Haven't checked the forums for a couple of days - because I've been playing with my new Squeeze Box! If you have any genuine interest go check the forums, there is TON of great information. Forums

As for my experience here's a link to a long story Beginner's Tale but bottom line for me is I LOVE this thing.

I ended up ripping my songs with Exact Audio Copy (EAC) in FLAC and am very impressed with the sound quality. This was by far the most daunting part of the SqueezeBox (SB) as I only had a few tunes ripped to music match. EAC is no picnic but once set-up (you must use the tutorials unless you helped write the code) it rips perfect bit accurate FLAC files. Oh yeah then you need to create play lists which EAC doesn't do and SlimServer does poorly, and then you need to learn SlimNetwork to listen to internet radio. Whew. Can't write enough about the trials I went through but is SOOO worth it.

Your whole music collection there in one place. Browse artists, albums, with a screen that can be read from across the room. After doing the ripping leg work it took maybe 3 minutes to find and start playing my Music files. I have a Linksys wireless router and it located and set it up in a couple minutes. Tops.

I am using the DAC in the SB and running audio out to my HK 3480 which does not have its own DAC like most AVR's will. Sound quality matches my Onkyo CD player but I always hesitate to judge sound quality.

BEST PART? Listening to internet radio, free and commercial free. Takes a bit of learning again but I have SkyFM running morning to night and it streams 128 kbs Mp3 quality sound 24/7. SHOUTcast, live365, radioIO and tons of other options.

Playlists of all your favorites, Rhapsody if you are so inclined and Pandora too, niether of which do much for me.

Very interested in others' takes on the sound quality but so far my ears can tell no differenece between my Onkyo CDP and the SB DAC running FLAC file format.

You do need your computer on to play your music lists but NOT to play internet radio as it uses the wireless router and the existing cable modem to steam from the internet.

Again would be very interested in sound quality issues.

larry

There is a wireless model; that would probably be easiest. You can't just daisy chain it to a computer; the computer would have to be acting as a router, and that's likely to get really confusing, really fast. And you'd have to have that computer on at all times in order for the squeezebox to be on the network.

Another BIG thumbs up for the Squeeze 3!! I have 2 of them in the house and will probably end up with a 3rd when my Theater Room is done. I'm in the middle of ripping all of my CD's. Also using EAC to FLAC. Yes it's a bit quirky but once setup it seems to work fine.

Went with the wired version as I have Cat 6 running to every room in the house. No problems there.

As far as sound quality I have to be honest and say I was a bit skeptical at first but am totally blow away. Every bit as good as my Denon CDP and then some. I've done several blind tests with myself and others and no one was able to tell the difference. This thing is the best thing to come down the musical pike in a long time. Some of my CD's are 20 years old or so and being able to store them in a redundant exact digital format is great. Barring any catastrophic failure, (Raid 5 with a TB of storage, UPS / Surge protection etc, )...I should have a safe storage medium for the rest of my life.

Pandora is cool, though at 128k the sound quality is just OK. I find myself using it more for background music and if I hear something I like then I can buy it. In that regard it is very useful to me seeing as I live in a very remote area with little or no radio coverage and have a hard time discovering new music. Satellite radio is OK but I find it to be the same crap and play lists over and over again just like FM with no commercials.

Robert thanks for the excellent post. Was wonder about your audio hook-ups. Are you using the DAC from the SqueezeBox direct to the audio ins of a receiver? Or are you using another DAC in your receiver? I am assuming you comparing the DAC in your Denon CDP to the SB but was wondering if there is another DAC in the mix.

Larry

Larry, I have an Outlaw 990 with 7700 amp. The 990 allows for "bypassing" any processing so it's an easy side by side test just pure direct through put from either the Denon or Squeezebox. I generally use it just in "stereo" mode which allows me to tweak the bass and treble to where I like it. But side by side, straight through...... coax, optical, or analog ......the SB with FLAC ripped with EAC from a good drive...(Plextor 760A).....there is no difference. In fact I think there is even more detail to be found from the FLAC file off of a well engineered CD. For what ever reason. Maybe it's the error checking, maybe the Denons transport / laser / DAC isn't as good as what I end up with ripped off of my computer....I don't know.

Bottom line, if you like the idea of storing all of your audio in a safe redundant way. You can't do any better than the SB and FLAC. And it's SOOOOOOO much better than having a huge CD rack taking up space in the room. Not to mention the convenience factor. Pick up a remote, push a button or two and your done.

Greetings,

I’ve had an interesting adventure trying to implement Slimserver and Squeezesoft. This is a long post. I wanted to document my trials in case anybody else is pondering this kind of project.

I don’t know diddley about linux. That has been a problem, but I enjoy learning and thanks to kind souls in several open source forums, I’m making progress.

Here is what I want to do:
• Have an NAS-type device that will be accessible for read/write operations from Windows XP machines on my home network (digital photos and music, shared and backed-up document storage).
• Use that same device as a Slimserver, using Squeezesoft as the client at least initially. Again, I’ve got PC’s, Squeezeboxes cost money.
• Have that server machine operate headlessly.
• Implement a backup plan.
• Maybe be able to use it as a print server.
• Not spend the rest of my summer learning Linux from scratch. Have easy management on an ongoing basis.
• Bask in the glory of convergence.
• Have my wife understand and appreciate why I spend time on this stuff (deliver content and an intelligible network environment to her and other household end users).

Here’s what I had to work with:
• An old Dell 733Mhz PIII, 128MB RAM, with the original 30GB IDE Drive and a new WD 250GB IDE Drive (Primary Master and Primary Slave, respectively). IDE CD-ROM as Secondary Master. Machine has a network card connected via Cat5e to Linksys WRT54G (new, nonhackable version) which distributes the DSL connection to four other clients (2 wireless, 2 wired, all XP home SP2). The BIOS boots from CD but not from USB. The machine HAS USB ports, but I can’t seem to make it boot from them.
• I am not deeply concerned about security and privileges, since I do not plan to expose this machine outside my home network. The router is the firewall.
• I’m patient. I’m a good learner. I know when to relax and have a beer. I have more time than money at the moment.

Here’s what I’ve done (like you ask you kids “what did you do?!”). Insert “Read and Learned a LOT” in between each and every point.
• Installed the new drive.
• Installed FreeNAS
• Successfully mapped both the network drives to other client machines. Read, wrote, headlessly managed. Took a deep breath.
• Discovered and became obsessed with what Slimserver could mean to me relative to synchronized, whole-house audio.
• Realized how damn little I know about computer innards and Linux.
• Realized that Slimserver does not run on FreeNAS.
• Discovered SlimCD (which uses Damn Small Linux). Briefly rejoiced.
• Burned SlimCD. Successfully booted machine using SlimCD. DSL seems to see the network card.
• Realized that 128MB of RAM is insufficient to run even DSL.
• Grudgingly bought and installed 256MB of RAM in a ten year old computer.
• Realized that Damn Small Linux needs WAY too much geeking for what I want to do.
• Started to look at other linux distros, especially SME Server (Debian) and ClarkConnect (FC5).
• Decided – for reasons that are shrouded in 7 late-night open Firefox windows – to install ClarkConnect Home 3.2
• Discovered and installed Putty for signing in as console on server from another machine.
• Successfully installed and heedlessly managed server using CC web interface.
• Tried to install Slimserver via rpm. Apparently, CC does not come with Perl.
• Install ActivePerl
• Another unsuccessful Install of Slimserver. Advised to get the most recent NIGHTLY update of the code.
• Another unsuccessful install of Slimserver. Apparently, the basic Perl distribution doesn’t come with perl-archive-SHA1 or XML-parser
• apt-get install perl-XML-Parser, apt-get install perl-Digest-SHA1
• Successful install of Slimserver!
• Tried unsuccessfully to connect client to network share.
• Ascertained that problem is with version and implementation of Samba on the server.
• Reinstalled/updated Samba.
• Successful connection to a Client for the network share!
• Successful installation and use of Java and Softsqueeze on a client!
• Tried unsuccessfully to connect a second client to the server.
• Hacked endlessly on permissions, security, et al. on the server
• Hacked endlessly on permissions, security, et al. on the router
• Still unsuccessful on second client.
• Realized that Norton Internet Security is installed on second client
• Disable Norton
• Successfully connect second client to both network share and to slimserver.
• Resolve to replace Norton IS and to enthusiastically express my profound discontent to Symantec and others.

Here’s what I learned
• There are smart people doing amazing things with technology. Many of those people are gracious and helpful to strangers.
• I know even less than I thought before.
• It Can Be Done If You Keep Trying.
• Norton is evil.

Anyway, it’s been an interesting challenge. I’ve been mostly successful, eventually. I still have some things to do, but the vision is coming together. I need to decide on technology and strategy for ripping. I also need to integrate my daughter's new infatuation with iPod into the schema.

What to you uber-geeks do for system backup?

I hope this helps somebody.

Thanks for the play-by-play, Tom. It was entertaining and educational. Everybody who wants to do anything with Linux for the first time goes through that process, so don't think of yourself any less. Actually, many people START the process but don't finish because they think it's too much work -- and they also tend to start with something simple like just installing one.

So pat yourself on the back and have one more beer than you planned on having.

For backups, I recommend rsync. It's very fast, works over the network and with ssh. Very tweakable, too.

Wait, and you asked me questions about computing? I'm impressed! Especially with the Perl stuff. That's a pain. I always have to go back and read all sorts of tutorials and whatnont whenever I try and set up Perl. Not to mention actually using the thing...

Buddy, I'm not using perl, Slimserver is. I know just enough to be dangerous. You know, there's a fine line between brave and stupid. Fortunately, I wasn't taking much risk on this deal.

Tom, that was great post. After reading thread after thread about the trials the NAS guys are having with getting Slim Server loaded onto their NAS machines I would not even consider it. It appears to be a bit of a black art as you have apparently discovered. PERL??? To play music? I don't get it.

One thing I might consider though is a dedicated little Shuttle Barebones. It would be accessible with your regular PC through the network, could store most of your files on a 300+ GB drive. Could leave it running in some small closet or let it sleep until needed. Seems like a bit more dough but you get an entirely new PC and loading Slim Server would be a walk in the park. Food for thought and the way I will go if it become important for me to have my PC turned off to listen.

Thanks again for the info and would love hear how your adventure ends.

Larry

FWIW at this point, I want to say that I have been EXTREMELY happy with my Squeezebox 2 and FLAC files. I also use EAC to rip my CDs to FLAC.

I really think things like Squeezebox are the future, especially when coupled with external storage devices.

My local A/V has a Sonos system setup and it is slick. It does not require a PC, and it access a NAS device. Just a little pricey though!

Hey Larry, thanks for the kind words and your ongoing interest.

A good part of the requirements for my situation were dictated by money. I didn't want to buy another OS, much less another computer. That machine had previously, buggily, run Win98. There is no way I was going to spend the dough necessary to both bring up the hardware and buy the OS to run XP. However, it runs that Linux distro with ease, and the only money I spent was on the RAM upgrade ($40) and a new hard disk that I would have needed anyway (~$70). That's less than I would have spent on just a new MS OS.

FreeNAS is not worth it. It doesn't "do" anything. Spending an extra couple days on implementing a bare-bones linux install was worth it to me.

As to the Shuttle, it is an interesting form factor. However, if you're just going to put it in a closet anyway, why spend so much on a case that is so small? You certainly can't get multiple hard drives in something like that, and if it is not proximal to your listening space, the extreme quiet is hardly necessary. I tried to spec out a Shuttle HTPC and just ended up being frustrated and going with a Silverstone case instead. The only compelling reasons to use a Shuttle box are size and quiet. If it's in a closet, neither one is really very important, and you lose a lot of flexibility in the process, not the least of which is the proprietary power supply.

I like the looks of the Antec Sonata case for a good combination of cost, quiet and capacity. I might move the guts of my current server to one of those cases some day.

Other than working out the rsync stuff, I'm pretty happy at the moment. The fileserver is fine (accessible from all the other machines) and Slimserver/Sqeezesoft work just fine (either synched or independent). I just have to find time to put more content on the drive.

All in all, a pretty satisfying project. I've seen the future. Dang.

I see your point Tom and the decisions we make are so taylored to our home and listening space designs. It's shame so many of those decisions are made because of the cost of XP.

In my home my computer is in my living room and so is my listening stuff so it really is not a problem as it now is set up. I don't even really need another box, I'm just looking at alternatives. I even have a couple of old cases in the garage, I know I can get my Win98SE versions up and running on almost any chip set, 300 gig hard drives are cheap as is RAM, so there is potential to have a really cheap box that I realize I don't even need.

Who knows what the next free weekend will bring though, perhaps that dreaded trip into Linuxland will hold some inexplicable allure where it only looks like more computer pain today.

Most important, it sounds like you worked out the gremlins.

"I've seen the future. Dang." - That's pretty funny.

Best

Larry

It sounds like a great project, Tom. I'd love to have something like that set up, but I just have a problem with having a full blown machine running all the time. My electric bill's gone up enough as it is. I wonder if there's a low power solution to this...

ooooohhhkaayyy...

This thread having been successfully revived, I posit the following to those of you who have conquered the frontier:

If you were going to start ripping FLAC files to eventually archive/replace CD changers (one of which is no longer "changing" so well...), would you create BOTH an MP3 and FLAC file during the ripping process (presumably with MAREO) or just get the FLAC and find some utility to batch convert the FLACs to MP3s later as necessary for portable devices?

How much disk space do I need for 800 CD's worth of FLAC files?

If you needed a computer front-end and interface to play tunes WITH A REMOTE CONTROL, what would you do? IRMON, USB-UIRT, Girder, etc. Don't tell me M MCE. I've got XP all over the house and I'm not changing OS's for this project. I'd like to use my trusty MX-700 to control playback of music on the computer.

I don't feel like buying squeezeboxes since I already have computers and softsqueeze.

What is your preferred file naming schema from EAC?

Harumph.

The server is still running, btw. And Synchback is a rockin backup program.

Tom, if I remember correctly, your looking at an average of about 20mb per song when using lossless FLAC. So lets just say you have an average of 10 songs per CD, that would be 8,000 songs or about 156GB's.

I'd do the math differently. FLAC avderages a .54 compression ratio. The average CD contains about 600mb of data (less than full). Therefore 800 CDs containing 600mb of data each, compressed to 54% original size gets you 259,200mb, or roughly 250 gigs. Drives are dirt cheap these days.

This drive array may not be cheap, but it's kick-ass cool.

That IS one kick ass cool drive.
I want one.

Drobo is "cool" but it isn't exactly as the guy states in the video. If you run their Drobolator you can play around with drive sizes. If all of your drives are the same size, then it acts like a RAID5 set where you take the capacity of all of the drives, subtract the capacity of one of the drives, and that gives you the storage you can actually use (let's say you have four 500GB drives: 500+500+500+500 = 2TB. 2TB-500 = 1.5TB usable (give or take a little for actual formatted size)... That's fine. Now, if you take 4 (or three or whatever) differently sized drives, lets say 80GB, 160GB, 200GB, and 500GB... Put them in, you do NOT get the use of the largest drive in the array. You get 80+160+200 = 440GB (again, subtracting a little for actual formatted capacity). The usability of that 500GB is "lost" to allow for recovery and data protection... Still really cool, but for $500 I can put an internal RAID 5 set into my PC since my motherboard directly supports it. Yes, I would have to rebuild the array if I wanted it to grow in size, but for the money I could have one heck of an internal RAID5 set that would outlast my PC anyway...

I would say that their strongest benefit is the ease of swapping drives around and so forth.

Drobo is "cool" but my question is why only DAS (direct attached storage) and not NAS (network attached storaage) as well?

For me, I like to backup across the network so I have an ethernet HDD connected to my router. All my Macs/PCs can offload to there. Granted it's more of a fileshare than a backup, but a singlepoint backup works for me. Being able to swap drives there would be fantastic, and making it worry free would be golden if it was Drobo.

Drobo can be your NAS with the 802.11n Airport Extreme Base Station.

I agree with Nick.

And it's obvious your collective geekhood has bounds; "ooh, stroke the pretty drive inclosure! What, somebody asked a question about CONTENT?"