Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Advice on speaker selection in a tile room

I need to add a left and right surround to bring my system up to 5.1. I'm currently using Athena AS-f2's for fronts nd an AS-C1 for center with a new p-6000 sub on the way. I'm using a Yamaha HTR-5790 as a reciever. I'm extremely happy with the performance of this setup, but I am really NOT sold on the Athena bookshelves. So I'm looking seriously at Axiom as an alternative, specifically the M2ti. The QS4's are also an option, but I have not been impressed with the sound from other omni-directional speakers for music, and this is a 60-40 Music/movie system. I was ready to go with the M2ti's until I read some comments from someone who's opinion I respect that the M2ti's and M3ti's are not suited for an environment with tile foors. Being in FL, the entire house it tile and drywall over block.

So, I'm looking for some feedback from those of you who are most familiar with the Axiom line. Does anyone have any comments or advice?

Thanks,

Mike

IMO no speaker on the planet is suited for an environment with tile floors unless you have some other absorbtion (eg a rug, soft furniture, fat people etc...)

M2s are very neutral; M3s are just the tiniest bit "laid back" (midrange dip) but not as much as, for example, Paradigm Monitors.

I ran M2s as surrounds for a while and was very happy with them, particularly for music. I upgraded to QS8 surrounds which were significantly better for movies and IMO not *quite* as good for music.

What crossover frequency will you be using ?

Bridgman,
Crossover for the sub/fronts should be about 40. The As-f2's are pretty good on bass. I can set the surrounds to small, and I **think** that the receiver will cross them higher. Another option is to set the receiver crossover higher to accomodate the surrounds, set LFE output to both fronts and sub, and set the sub to ignore everything over 40. But I have to see if there is a negative impact to using two crossovers on the same signal. It's going to take some experimentation for sure.

The room is not quite as bad as all tile. There is a large leather couch with a natural fiber area rug in front, an overstuffed cloth easy chair with a matching overtuffed ottoman. Walls are painted drywall, and windows are covered with wooden blinds--stained not painted.

I also should have mentioned that I could probably squeeze M3ti's in as an alternative.

Thanks,

Mike

>>Crossover for the sub/fronts should be about 40. The As-f2's are pretty good on bass. I can set the surrounds to small, and I **think** that the receiver will cross them higher.

I don't think the Yamaha can do that. AFAIK it's just one crossover frequency picked from a short list of values.

>>Another option is to set the receiver crossover higher to accomodate the surrounds, set LFE output to both fronts and sub, and set the sub to ignore everything over 40.

Problem with that is the sub will ignore everything over 40 from the center and surrounds as well. Again, I think you're stuck with one crossover frequency and the lowest setting *may* be 100 Hz.

>>It's going to take some experimentation for sure.

Always

Bridgman,
The 5790 definitly distinguishes between small and large. I've just never examined what frequencies it does not send to small and whether that is determined by the crossover point that defines LFE. It definitely allows you to send low frequency signal (as defined by the specified crossover) to the sub, fronts, or both. So if It only gives me one, then I have to use the subs X-over as well. Any thoughts about speaker selection?

Mike, welcome. So far as the crossover for the mains, the fact that they may have good response to 40Hz or whatever doesn't make it necessary(or even advisable)to cross them at lower than 80Hz(whatever crossover setting you select on your 5790 will apply to all speakers set "small"). If you have a good sub it should be allowed to handle what it does best in the low bass and relieve the mains(and the 5790's amps)of part of the low bass burden. Another point, although it isn't entirely clear from your post, if you think that using the internal sub crossover affects the other speakers, that isn't the case; it's simply a low-pass for the sub itself.

The M3s are probably a better choice than the M2s.
They are pretty big though - and rear ported.

Thanks for the welcome and the reply John. That clarifies things a bit. Athena recommends that the crossover on the AS-F2s be set low--40 to 50 I believe. But I plan to mess around with it to see what sounds best. I didn't think that the crossover on the sub would affect the other speakers. I was just curious if running the signal through two crossovers (first on the receiver and second on the sub) would degrade it in any way.

On another note, I really had no idea how complicated selecting a couple of surrounds was going to get! :-) The other poster is probably on the right track that the M3ti is the best choice given it's rep for a more laid back sound, but I really have to think about whether it will look to big on the wall.

Mike

In reply to:

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I don't think the Yamaha can do that. AFAIK it's just one crossover frequency picked from a short list of values.

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I think John #1 is right, AFAIK, the only major manufacturer short of higher-end processors and boutique brands that offer individual speaker crossover points are the HK line of receivers. Yamaha offers global crossovers (same for all speakers) something like 40/60/80/100/120/140/160 i believe.

Thanks Sid. I think you are correct. If the crossover is set from the listin the receiver, it sets the corssover for any speaker set to small. So the most likely way for me to set this up will be to set the crossover on the receiver to match the limitations of the left and right surrounds and set them to "Small". Leave the fronts set to "Large", and set LFE Out to "Both" so that low frequency signaling goes to both the fronts and the sub, and set the Subs cross-over as appropriate for the fronts so it ignores the higher frequencies I want handled by the fronts.

I'm looking to place my order tomorrow--Hope they end up working in my room.

MIke

M3s right?
I like them. Honestly, I ve never heard anyone say "they suck" or "they're bright" or whatever. The WORST I've ever heard someone say about M3s was akin to, "They're pretty good for the money."
In other words, I think you're gonna like em quite a bit.

Yeah, I'm probably going for the M3's. The M2's are a perfect size for the space, but I think from what I have read in reviews and heard here that the M3's may be a little more laid back is sound. The M2's may be just a little to "live" for this room. I'd love to hear otherwise, but I think that's the overall impression. I guess QS-4s are still an option, but I think directs may be a better fit given the amount of music these will be used for.

Mike

You could always try the M2s to see if ya would like them. Axiom does have a trade up policy if need be.

Wid, Given the discussion and discounting space considerations, which would you recommend?

Mike

I think I would give the M2s a go. The Athenas aren't exactly a laid back speaker either. I think they would match up quite nice.

Scott, some of the Onkyos(e.g. 703)also provide for setting separate crossover frequencies for separate speaker groups.

interesting John, i don't think i realized that. I've looked a little closer at the Onkyo's recently as i was looking at upgrading some of the features of my "pro" (since i currently run an older model Yamaha). It is quite frustrating trying to find a decently priced model from any of the major manufacturers that has component-vid upconversion, a phono input AND preouts. Most receivers seem to have 1/3 or 2/3 unless you are willing to spend around $1K or more. Spending that much certainly puts the Onkyo in the running and the separate crossovers would be a nice feature to have. My apologies for the hijack.

John, Don't apologize. It's interesting. :-). My Yamaha HTR-5790 was under a grand. It has an input labeled "Phono", pre-outs for front/center/sub/2-surrounds, and uconversion to component vid from S-video and composite. You might want to take a look at the HTR-5890. It appears to have the same feature set. Don't get caught up in the diff between HTR and RXV. They are the same product packaged diffently. From Yamaha's site:

"There are many similarities between these two product lines. The RX-V line and the HTR line are produced in the same Yamaha factory using the same high quality parts throughout. The RX-V and equivalent HTR models have the same warranty periods, the same manufacturer's suggested retail price, the same features, and the same remote control units". The real difference is the channel they are sold through and cosmetics. The 5890 is $699 at Best Buy and I'd bet you can find it cheaper on the web. I've been extremely happy with my 5790.

BTW, I ordered the M2's last night. We'll see how they work out.

Mike

hey Mike,
(i think you have me mixed up with all the other John's posting in this thread, I typically go by Scott, but have been called a number of other things, most of which aren't repeatable on this forum ).

Good call, and i think i had looked at that model...but had forgotten one other stipulation in my other post - it has to be black (it had looked to me like the 5890 was only available in silver. Prices look good, only problem is you've got $USD listed and, while our dollar is getting closer all the time, that's still a little more than I had been hoping to spend. I think the 5990 is listed as $1K on Bestbuy's & Futile Shop's websites. The Pioneer 1015 looked like the answer for only $500 on boxing day sales, but no phono.