Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Question for Sirquack... and others

Sirquack,

I see that you have a Sanyo Z2. I would like to know how does the deinterlacing/scaling of this projector compares to your panny DVD player. I currently own a Z2 but I have a crappy DVD player and to me it doesn't seem much better than the Z2. Basically I would like to know if getting the S97S or the Oppo would be an upgrade in picture quality.
Also could anybody tell me if the Oppo still has problems with subtitles? I've heard that it sometimes garbles them, and I watch subtitled movies quite often.

Thanks.

When your comparing your crappy DVD player to your Z2's scaler, are you turning off the Z2 scaler in the menu option to see how the DVD player performs?

In regards to the S97S, yes it has a better scaler than the Z2's, so I've always went into the menu of the Z2 and turned off the option for progressive and use the Panny.

The Panny puts out a great picture via component or HDMI/DVI. I've had no problems with my Panny in the months I've owned it, it has performed flawlessly.

I'm actually tossing around the idea of selling the Panny and building a HTPC. Using Theatertek Software DVD player you can actually scale the DVD image to match your resolution of your projector. This is especially nice for my Constant Height Screen setup using the Prismasonic Anamorphic lens.

It is great being able to watch 2.35 movies with no black bars...

Yes I made sure I had disabled the Z2 scaler/deinterlacer while using my DVD's scaler and they both look just about the same. I am not impressed by either of them. I see a lot of jaggies in a lot of action sequences. For example the imperial star destroyer at the very beginning of Star Wars (IV). Another example is War of the Worlds which I watched last weekend and it looked horrendous at times.
I love my Z2 I just need to get a better DVD player. I am plan to eventually build a HTPC (Linux based) but right now I don't think I could afford to build what I want (I'm saving up to buy my axioms), so a good DVD player would do.
I would get the S92S or the Oppo.

About your constant height setup:
does the S97S do the vertical scaling?
I am considering getting a lense too, I like the idea of getting rid of those pesky black bars.

In any case I like the idea of building a HTPC, to be able to store my DVD/CDs on a server, as well as having the ability of viewing/recording HD.

Nope the S97S won't do the scaling, at least I have not figured out how. The Z4 will do the scaling needed of 480p, 720p, or 1080i. The Z2 will only let me scale the 480p via component. Once I've reclaimed the 33% of the panels taken up by the black bars, I then use the lens to stretch the picture to fill my 2.35 screen.

I can't afforda new projector right now, so that is why I'm looking at a HTPC using Theatertek as it will do the scaling for me.

So, what do you use right now to modify the image before it get to the Z2?
If I understand correctly you have to modify the image so that when the projector projects it through the lens it displays at the correct aspect ratio (2.35) without black bars right?
How do you achieve this? I can see how you do it with a HTPC but how are doing it right now? Does the DVD player allow you to do it?

About the panny: I thought it did upscale through HDMI. On the specs it shows that it upscales 720p/1080i through HDMI. The Z2 has a DVI input isn't that compatible? (complete n00b here...).
So the Z2 won't upscale unless it's via component? I will need to do some tests, I've only used it with component.
If I get this you are saying that if I feed some 480p 1.78 ratio image into the DVI input of the Z2 it won't upscale it? (ie it won't fit the whole screen?)

Sorry for having that many questions I'm just a little confused about what the panny and the Z2 can do.

My lens has pass thru mode which passes the image with no changes, and stretch mode which is used for watching 2.35 movies. For regular 1.85 ratio or below movies I use the Pass mode as I don't want to alter the image.

When I put in a movie like Star Wars that is 2.35 aspect ratio, you get black bars on top/bottom, which is normal for 16:9 mode and the projector is set on Full for the SCR setting on the remote. The first thing I do is click the SCR button on the Z2 remote and cycle through the options (full, normal, zoom, etc.) The Zoom option takes the image and stretches it so it fills the black bars on top/bottom, reclaiming the 33% that was lost by the bars. The width does not change, so everything looks skinny. Then I turn my lens knobs to Stretch mode which stretches the image back out to fill the 2.35 screen, and the images are normal again with no black bars.

For 1.85 DVD's I use Full mode on the Z2's SCR button and put the lens in Pass mode.

The problem with the Z2 is that I can only stretch (using the Zoom button) 480P signals via component. When I try the Input 2 signal (DVI/HDMI) it locks the Z2 and I can't cycle through the various SCR options. For 1.85 movies I can enjoy DVI/HDMI upconversion of my Panny S97S because I don't need to stretch anything.

So basically I"m trying to justify if I want to buy a Z4 so I can stretch the DVD/HDMI signal and get a little bit better resolution than 480P, or build a HTPC and use Theatertek DVD Player, which currently will allow for many scaling options and higher resolutions. The HTPC would be cheaper route, and then I could sell my S97s.

Don't get me wrong, the picture on 2.35 material is very very nice, even at 480P over component. I just like always trying to achieve a better picture.

Your right the Panny does upscale to 720p and 1080i and the picture looks very nice. I just can't stretch 2.35 movies that feed the Z2 over that connection. So I could watch the movie with Black bars upconverted if I wanted, I just don't like black bars..

The Z2 will not upconvert via component, only DVI/HDMI...

Hope this helps, let me know if I confused you even more...

I get it now. That is really good information since I want a setup similar to yours eventually.
So bottom line if I want to get rid of black bars I will need to either use the component connection (which means I would have to rule out the Oppo DVD player since it only deinterlace/scale on the DVI output) or use a HTPC (or buy a DVD player that can stretch the image if such a device exists).
Now I will eventually build a HTPC I just can't afford it right now, my priority is to buy some axiom speakers (and yes I will buy them trought the outlet).
So in the meantime I will buy a DVD player and have to live with black bars for now...((shudder))

About the Prismasonic lens, does it affect the contrast and brightness in any way?

Also have ever had the opportunity to compare your panny with the Oppo? Could anybody give an opinion? I'm torn between the two.

Thanks for the help.

To get rid of the bars correctly, you do need a scaler. Some people use the zoom on the lens of the projector to enlarge the image to hide the black bars. However, this method does not reclaim the pixels that are lost with the black bars. Besides, the Z2's zoom range might not work anyway.

I do believe there are a few DVD players that will achieve the stretch, the only one I've heard about is the momitsu v880 with latest firmare.

There also some projectors that now perform the stretch, some of the Infocus models, and the newer Z4 and Panny 900 I believe.

Now some DVD players also have a Zoom feature, but my experience is that you do lose quality, and those types of zoom's stretch the image both on the top/bottom and the sides.

I have not tried the Oppo, I got the panny based on good reviews on AVS forum, but the Oppo has good reviews as well. One problem I have with the Z2/S97S combination is called overscan via DVD/HDMI. I think this is normal and not just based on my equipment. But when I watch material via HDMI/DVI I get overscan, basically a 5-6 pixel border all around the entire image. Some projectors, especially the new ones have overscan adjustments. I know TheaterTek DVD software allows you to fix this issue as well.

I know some people have mentioned that anamorphic lens will soften the overall image, so far that has not been my experience. I've talked to Panamorph, Isco, and Prismasonic owners and they all say the notice an increase in brightness and picture quality. The reason, when you watch 2.35 movies with bars, your missing out on 33% of the pixel panel. If you scale the image to make use of those lost pixels, I've been told you gain upto 20% in image brightness.

If your screen is big enough, maybe the black bars aren't that big of deal. If you have it setup with the correct throw distance/zoom combination, you might be able to just zoom in /out on the projector lens to get rid of some of the bars. Of course, this is a manual operation and if you projector is ceiling mounted it is a pain...

I definitely would want to go with an anamorphic lens. Zooming the image to get rid of the bars is out of the question.
I new there would be some overscan over DVI but I didn't know that the Z2 would have so many pixels...
I wonder if that overscan happens no matter what DVD player you use.
Building an HTPC would definitely be the way to go since there is total control over overscan, image stretch etc...

I think the Z4 has a menu option to adjust the overscan, not sure about the Z3. I think there is a service menu option in the Z2, I just have not taken the time to figure it out...