Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Another Question About Receivers

Hey all:

Wanted to take your pulse on what I should do re: my receiver. I have the following Axioms: EP350, VP150, M60s, and QS8s. I have a Panasonic 50" Plasma. I currently own the Pioneer Elite 72txv. I am still within the window for returning the Pioneer, and am deciding whether I should. I don't have buyer's remorse--I think the receiver sounds real good--I am just trying to decide whether I should test some other receivers. I can always re-buy the Pioneer later if I want. However, I've decided I don't want to unless I can expect some reasonable benefits from other receivers--it will be a chore for me to test other receivers, not something I will enjoy.

So, the question. Do you think there would be a noticeable difference in sound or PQ relative to the receivers listed below? With regard to sound, I ask because I keep reading that the Axiom speakers are "bright" and that the Pioneer receivers tend to be "bright." From what I understand of the term, that is not really an insult, just a description of the sound. I mostly use the system for home theater, but do listen to music at times. With regard to PQ, I love my picture for high definition and DVD, but am not a huge fan for regular channels. (In that regard, if it is relevant, I have my cable box into the receiver via component [digital for sound] and out to the TV via HDMI. Can't use HDMI from the cable box due to compatability problems.) Here are the other receivers I was thinking of testing:

(1) HK AVR-640. Not out yet, but I've been reading about it. People seem excited about its prospects.

(2) Denon 2807. Also not out yet, but again have been reading about it. I've read conflicting reports on whether it will have upscaling.

(3) Yamaha RX-V2600. Seems to have upscaling, but I don't know whether that really will matter. I've heard it only does if the receiver's scaler is better than the TV's, and I have no idea whether that would apply to me or not.

I understand I am asking a question that may be difficult to truly answer, but just curious what you all think--if you were me and viewed this as work would you test the other receivers, and why?

Thanks everybody. You guys are always a great help answering questions.

I don't think you can go wrong with receiver you have. I doubt there is much difference in sound when it comes to most high end receivers. What usualy sets them apart is the features.
As far as upscaling, I know myself and many others don't use that option because we hook our DVD players up directly to the television.
Hope this helps.

Thanks HomeDad. Don't know if it matters, but I am curious about upscaling only with regard to whether it will help non-HD channels from the cablebox. I love the DVD picture. Have an uscaling DVD player (at least I think it upscales) into the receiver via HDMI and out via HDMI. I frankly don't have any idea what any of the components are doing, but I think the picture looks great! I am assuming that an upscaling receiver wouldn't make the picture from the DVD player any better or any worse in that regard.

I don't think you can upscale non-HD channels from the cablebox, at least I've never heard of it. If your DVD player has HDMI it will most likely upscale, I wouldn't even go through the reciever on the video side, unless you can't go directly to the tv with the HDMI.

I have the DVD going through the receiver only for convenience re: switching. By sending everything through the receiver I can switch between the cablebox and DVD (and IPOD for that matter, which has onscreen displays) through the receiver without having to change the input on the TV. Do you think I am losing any PQ by going through the receiver? (I suppose I could check easily enough, but why go through the effort if I can just ask!)

I doubt if you would notice any change in PQ, sounds like you getting a great picture and you setup is perfect for your equipment needs.

I don't know much about the Pioneer, but the three models listed are excellent choices. Go for it.

"Bright" is a term which best describes the recorded material, not the Axioms, which are neutral. Bad recordings, bad sound.

I learned to ignore the bright,mechanical, harsh, etc... types of comments you hear over at AVSforum.

That certainly is where I read the "bright" comments, though I have to say that folks over there rarely seem to knock the Axioms. I may go over to the local Best Buy and listen to the Denons versus the Pioneer Elites to get a feel for the difference. I imagine that is far from a perfect test, but maybe it will help me decide if I want to go through the effort of testing receivers. Thanks everyone for the thoughts, and if anyone else has an opinion about this I'd love to hear it.

I'm not a big believer in "bright" receivers. I do think some sound "thin" (typically ones with wimpy amplifiers) and arguably those might sound a bit better with speakers having a depressed midrange, but I don't think you are going to find a noticeably different sound from one receiver to another.

Not everyone agrees with this, however...

I think there is a sound quality difference between AVRs, but actually hearing that difference is something most people can't perceive (IMO).

So I would rank "sound quality" as possibly the least important part of the decision (assuming your not looking at a Sensui ). Features has to be number one, can it do what you want. Sounds like you have an idea in what you want them to do. Build quality (and reliability). I can tell you as an owner of an AVR630 that HK builds the heck out of their receivers. Weight really does mean sometime for amplifiers (power wise). Then asthetics, I really would prefer to not own something I believe is ugly, althought I will admit its a lower priority, but if you come down to a close race between two models it would be the tie breaker for me.

Just a couple cents there.

SK, if you "keep reading" that Axioms and Pioneers are "bright", then you're reading sources which are misinformed or uninformed but continue to spread audio mythologies. Again, Axioms are accurate speakers which reproduce the characteristics of the source material, be it dull, bright, just right, or whatever.

Your Pioneer, along with all competently designed receivers has a flat 20-20KHz frequency response and there's no way that it can mysteriously add some sonic characteristic of its own which would require a substantial deviation from flat response over a wide band. This is what modern audio technology teaches us and claims to the contrary collapse when put to a carefully controlled blind test in which the ears alone have to actually be trusted.

As to scaling in a receiver, keep in mind that all HDTV sets have to scale incoming signals if they don't match the sets' native resolution. Scaling in a receiver or player would only be of advantage if it happened to do a visibly better job of it than the circuit in the set itself.

You have no reliable way to "test" those other receivers. You have excellent equipment; relax and enjoy.

Since my last post on this thread I have taken the time to read up on the specs of your receiver. IMHO your Elite should hold its own. Unless your looking for a features in another receiver, I believe you have a keeper.

Thanks everybody. That is great information. The Pioneer definitely has all the features I want (and more than I'll ever really use), so I'm going to stick with it. As I mentioned, I think it sounds great, and its automatic equalization feature seems to have set everything up real nice (my room is pretty standard, but my surround speaker placement is not what you would call "ideal").

I do have one additional question. I bought my Pioneer on Superbowl Sunday (had problems with my prior receiver). Was in a rush because was having folks over, so bought the Pioneer because of its features without any real shopping. The guy at Best Buy very quickly played some stuff through the Pioneer and then through a Denon, and the sound did seem different. Is your guess that is a result of different settings or different speakers? I am just curious why you think it sounded different to me based on the information you guys were discussing above. (It was such a quick listen it really doesn't mean much.)

As an aside, I read a post where somone was talking about how nice folks on this board are. You really are a great and helpful group, and it is nice knowing I can get honest feedback on these types of things. Hell, you guys even go check the specs on things! The folks at Axiom also have been great. (For example, one of my full metal brackets had a problem. I sent a note to Axiom asking what I should do, and they just stuck another one in the mail.) Couldn't be happier that I chose the Axioms for my speakers.

Skimble, there is no telling what setting the two receivers may have been on at Best Buy. And, if different speakers were hooked up you were probably hearing the differences in their sound and not the receiver. There are a lot of possibilities as to why you heard things the way you did.

If the Pioneer does everything you want it to and sounds good to your ears, stick with it.

I'm guessing different speakers. If you're in the area again it wouldn't hurt to ask.