Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo The decision is finally made!

The usual disclaimer applies...not scientific, yadda, yadda, yadda. (Though we did have a switcher to make changes immediately, and volume levels were controlled)

OK...many of you know I've been demo'ing new speakers for awhile now. I even went so far as to buy a Radio Shack 4 speaker switcher to bring home. This past week I bought a pair of Energy Veritas 2.2 bookshelf speakers and I also was able to get a hold of a pair of M60's. I've been listening to both all week.

I finally made a decision and bought a pair of Axiom M60ti's. I'm bringing my Veritas back to the Good Guys today. It was not an easy decision. Both speakers had their pros and cons. IMHO, here are those pros and cons.

Bass - Not much of a contest here. In the lower levels, the M60's just kicked the Veritas butts. But it's to be expected. The M60's are large floorstanders and the Veritas are bookshelves.

Upper-Bass - This is more tricky. I've always found bookshelf speakers to be much more clear with better separation in the upper-bass region than floorstanders. I asked Alan about this issue with floorstanders and he suggested that it was mostly due to the fact that floorstanders are going to be reacting to the floor itself where as bookshelf speakers do not. So, being the nutty guy that I am, I thought to myself "Why not put the M60's on stands?"...so I did. And you know what? It worked! The upper-bass cleared up quite a bit. The lower end suffered a bit, but I preferred the clarity and separation I gained. So with the M60's off the floor, I found they were pretty much even with the Veritas in this range.

Midrange - Here's where I have to give the edge to the Veritas. Vocals, and horns were richer and smoother with the Veritas. I found horns had more resonance, they felt just a tad more real. Vocals were smoother. In comparision, vocals on the M60's sounded a bit thin and slightly harsh. Nothing offensive, but in comparison to the Veritas they just weren't as nice. Horns on the M60's held up a bit better, but lacked that extra richness that the Veritas gave them.

Highs - M60ti is the hands down winner here as well. The Axioms had far more detail and separation in this area. One particular thing that really made me smile was a disc of Chinese drums. (you know those giant drums!) Upon impact you could hear the mallet strike the drum, not just the resulting boom. It sounded so incredibly real. The Veritas lacked that initial strike.

Soundstage - Another win for the M60's. I think this is where having the Radio Shack switcher helped a lot. Upon immediately switching you could hear the sound just "open up". The Veritas sounded compressed and "closed in" in comparision.

Look - Looks are completely subjective. I'm not the hugest fan of Axiom's look. Though the Veritas aren't the best looking speaker either. I feel both are rather bland. I'd score them equally on looks.

Build - As nicely as the Axioms are built, the Veritas are even better. Large, very solid binding posts - slightly offset from eachother to make connections easier. The speakers themselves are solid as tanks.

Overall - Though I hate giving up that wonderful richness in vocals that I could have gotten from the Veritas, all of the other benefits of the M60's simply outweigh that. And as I said above, though they aren't as rich (vocals) the M60's are certainly not offensive. I also don't like the idea that Energy has set the MSRP on the Veritas at $1500 - and yet when it's time to unload the Veritas to make room for their new "I" series, they can sell them for $749. That just tells me that the original markup is simply gouging the consumer. The Veritas are an incredible speaker, but NOT a $1500 speaker. The excessive markup of the Energy's (although I personally didn't pay it) also contributed to my decision to stick with Axiom. I prefer to support a company that has a more consumer friendly business plan.

So...with that, I have a pair of Boston Cherry M60ti's on their way to me now!

If anyone has any questions, just say so.

gear used:

Rotel RSP-1066 pre/pro
Rotel RB-0175 amp (120x5)
Pioneer 656A (dvd/cd player)

That is an excellent review. I just wish I was in a position to buy new speakers right now considering there are some 60's in the factory outlet.
Oh well.

yep...I can't believe that the day I decided to get some M60's they show up in the outlet! Even in the color I wanted! Lucky me!

everything just lined up right...you got a great deal on the 2.2's, and then Boston Cherries showed up!

Someone just loves to see you spend money!

Hey Craig,

Excellent report as usual!

Have some questions...

(1) Did you listen to them with and without your VTF-2 engaged? If so, what are your assessments of them WITH the VTF-2?

(2) What was the height of the M60 stands?

(3) If the cost were a non-issue, and if you still had to select from these two brands only, would you likely go with the Veritas floorstanders?

(4) So, in addition to the M60 and Veritas, did you have the Ascends? -- what speakers filled the third position on the RS switch?

(5) Why the heck did you go with the LOWLY Boston Cherry??? (j.k.)

1) I listened to both with and without the VTF-2 hooked up. With it hooked up, the lower end deficiency with the Veritas was not as severe, but it was still not quite as "full".

2) I was using 16", but that seems a bit extreme. I'm going to try to get my brother-in-law to build some 8"ers.

3) I can't say, as I wasn't able to hear the 2.4's at home. That would certainly be a great side-by-side though. $800 Axiom vs $3600 Veritas.

4) The Ascend 340's were there too, but I was primarily listening between the M60's and Veritas.

5) I already have the VP150 in Boston Cherry, and want to get some QS8's in cherry as well.

"I can't say, as I wasn't able to hear the 2.4's at home. That would certainly be a great side-by-side though. $800 Axiom vs $3600 Veritas."

Uh oh....I have an idea coming to me. Better hide your credit card!

Hey...YOU buy the 2.4's! My credit card is still getting over the beating it's been taking the last few months.

You're more than welcome to bring them to my place to demo against my new M60's.

Hey!. dont be doggin the boston cherry man!

i suppose you got the *UGH* black...

Okay, today I visited my local Veritas dealer on the way back home, and briefly listened to the 2.3 and 2.4 floorstanders with my favorite CD's. While I agree that they are fine speakers, to be honest they did not impress me as strongly as they apparently did Craig. Granted, the listening room setting was rather mediocre -- although it was a well-isolated, good-sized demo room, sitting right in the middle of pairs of front speakers was this huge ugly box of 65" RPTV (sorry!). I am quite sure that the big box adversely affected the imaging and soundstage. That said, I didn't hear much better sound than what I have at home. In fact, what struck me was that the overall tonal character was quite similar to that of my Hales/Axiom combo. I now understand very well why Craig ended up with the M60's -- it's probably darn hard to justify the Veritas price, even with a direct A/B comparison at home.

Btw, the dealer had a nice cut-up model showing the innards of the Veritas -- the overall build quality, as well as the parts/drivers used inside, DID look very impressive. I also found there that the drivers are made-in-Canada.

I guess I am quite resistant to the upgraditis syndrome, so far.

I like the disclaimer at the front spiff.
I rather enjoyed reading this review.
It sounds as about objective as you can get at home. No ranking took place (or at least no rankings were posted) but you defined in the end why you chose what you chose. Your review explains how the Axioms were better for you but that the Veritas speaker has its own characterstics which certainly may suit someone else's preferences, regardless of the cost difference.
Essentially there is no universally 'better' speaker between the two, except in the eyes of the buyer.

I'm sure that speaker switcher really helps in the fast A/B comparison.

I spent about 1.5 hours listening to the M60 vs. 2.2's at his place. The first thing that I noticed during the first switch was the difference in the soundstage/openness between the two speakers. That immediately swung the WOW factor towards the Axioms. What jumped into my head was 800 vs 1500....that was immediately a no-brainer for me, but then had to remind myself that Craig got the 2.2's for 50% off, which then makes the decision more difficult. The M60 did more to my liking than the 2.2.

I like the M22's, but for me the highs are a bit harsh in the long run. The M60 seems to be a bit more refined in the highs, if it is the same tweeter, maybe the crossover network has something to do with it.

The M60 is nice, I would not hesistate recommending people having a look at it if looking for a floorstander.

curtis

But not the M22s?

I still recommend the M22's...you guys see that on the boards. But M60's are easier for me to recommend. If I have the time, I would like to compare them with my CMT-340's.

Curtis, you inspired me to check the Ascend site to see what you're using. I'm curious; are you just using regular 340c centers turned vertically, or has David got 340s modified for that use? Looking at the picture, it would appear that the 340 has a vertical diffuser in front of the tweeter to aid horizontal dispersion. The tweeter would therefore have to be rotated 90 degrees to maintain the horizontal dispersion when the 340 is vertical. A baffle compensation in the crossover, apparently relating to the 200-400hz bump caused by a large TV, is also mentioned, which wouldn't be necessary for use as mains.

John,

I am using a left/right version of the CMT-340...your assumptions in the changes are entirely correct! The diffuser is turned 90 degrees, and no baffle compensation. It is not on Ascend's website because of inventory control...same cabinet and drivers as the center, and they do not want to run out of parts before the next shipment comes in. The center channel has been in good demand.

I think it is an excellent speaker. And it sounded well in limited comparison to the M60 and Veritas 2.2....we just did not listen them that extensively, it was not the focus.

How far away were you sitting from the M60s to get good imaging? How far apart were they?

Craig,

Congrats on your purchase! I know you'll enjoy your purchase more as time goes by.

Frenchlop,

I've had my M60s (with VP150 and QS8s) for almost a year now and recently moved into a new home. The speakers were in an apartment living room that was 14'x11' with 10' ceilings. They were about 2' from the wall, 8' apart and I sat 8' away which gave me very good imaging . They're now in a Great Room that's 20'x16' with 18' cathedral ceilings. The speakers are 10' apart, 4' from the wall and I sit 10' away which gives me even better imaging. I love listening to 2-channel (CD and SACD) and multi-channel (SACD and DVD-A) music and watching DVDs (I have an SVS 20-39PCi to round out the home theater).

I'm getting a widescreen HDTV and Denon 2900 soon. I'll post new pictures as soon as everything is installed.

David

They were about 8'-9' apart and I sit about 10' away. Not the perfect setup, but they sounded great that way regardless. I'm very limited in where I can place the speakers. The only real flexiblity I have in my room is how far away my couch is from the speakers. It used to be about 8', but I've moved it back to about 10'-11'.

Frenchlop...you named after the bunny?

I am wondering how they would sound at 8' back and 12' wide.

That I can't help you with. 9' apart is as wide as I can get them in my room.

Nice review Spiff. Re your comments about raising the M60's off the floor with a stand to improve upper bass, just curious as to whether you used the rubber feet/spikes that the 60's come with, prior to putting them up on stands?

yep...I'm not talking about 1/2" off the floor. I had them 16" off the floor. That was probably extreme, but that's what I had for stands available.

My own pair of M60's arrived today. I'm trying to get a pair of 8" stands made for them. I'll let you know how it goes.

spiff,
Since you had mentioned that "The upper-bass cleared up quite a bit" after placing the M60s up higher (you mentioned 16 inches), did you change your listening height as well or did you still sit at the same spot as previous listening before you upped the M60s?

I'm wondering if the bass clarity you heard is due to the fact that the M60s tweeters were now much higher than your ear level taking away some of their direct treble, while the midrange woofer would be directly inline with your ears enhancing this sound range, as opposed to this clearing up effect coming from a removed floor interaction.
I was under the impression that you elevated the M60s a bit, but not a huge distance. Sixteen inches is rather substantial and should change the sound of any speaker moved in a vertical direction by that amount.

Good point. I'm going to play around a bit more. I'll keep everyone posted.

btw...my Cherry M60's showed up this afternoon, and I had an avsforum board member here not 3 hours later demo'ing them! He was very impressed. (As was I!)

Welcome to the floorstanders club spiff.
My Boston Cherry M60s are humming away as i write.

can spiffnme call them floorstanders if he puts them on stands? How about BIG bookshelves?

Hi spiffy,

Someone should be giving you a prize for an excellent review. Easily understood and right to the point. Not one of those rubbish, loaded with technicalities where you need to read several times to understand what they were trying to say.

Trust me, I've done my share of research on speakers and to me, a decision on a pair depends so much on:-

a) Money - How much are you willing to splash to get your "value for money"

b) Personal preference for sound. eg: clarity vs bassy etc Last week, I saw a couple of elders, testing speakers on some rap music.

c) Looks - Like it or not, your speakers will be a prominent piece of furniture in the room. No good sounding great but look like coffins?

There you go, I've said my pieces...

Cheers!!

It's amazing what a banana plugs can do for your sense of objectivity!

what?

in reference to your reply to this post